Many players will be asked to play up with older players because of their talent. During the pre-high school years the decision to move up (or stay put) usually is left up to the parents ----- so what do you do and why?
Fungo

If the competition is strong, then I am against it. There is a lot to be gained by being a star at your level, especially young. If the competition is weak and there is not much challenge, then playing up can be the only real option.

For the very few "exceptional" players I am all for it. Unfortunately it usually ends up being an ego thing for parents and a number of players are playing where they truly don't belong. Young kids rarely have the drive to be the "best of the best" and would prefer to compete with their friends and peers. By taking the joy out of their experience I think many kids end up turned off the added pressure.

I agree with Jemaz

If the competition is sufficient at the age appropriate level there really is no need to move up.

If the competition is weak then moving up can keep the player in an environment that allows him to improve.

Playing with friends is important, but kids are quick to make friends. Some of their closest friends may someday be players from different teams.

Kids may not seek to be the "best of the best" but kids with strong competitive instincts do not find as much enjoyment playing on weaker teams, and being the "star" may simply not appeal to them.

However, it is important that they play regularly. If moving them up puts them on the bench more than the field they are better off to stay where they are.

If you are asked to play up you play up.
You can confuse the issue but the coaches asked so they think you can do it.
You should always strive to play at the highest level you can.

My bad, I just re-read the original question. If asked the decision should be the player's with help from the parent(s). I agree kids will enjoy playing more with other players of similar abilities regardless of age.

Fungo, We let Zack play up when he was 10 because of 3 reasons: #1 he wanted to #2 we could see how it would benefit him #3 we don't have the time (but more importantly) the money to play on a good travel ball team (he plays in a rec league). We are going to (hopefully) be in a position now (3 years later) where he can play travel ball in the fall. My personal opinion (and this is sort of off topic) but I hate the fact that it comes down to money being able to play at the most competitive level.

A lot of interesting comments here… My guy has trained and played up a lot and has played a lot of pick up ball with much older players on weekends.

For much of the pre-HS years, I would recommend it, at least in this area. I think it has worked out well for him because he has worked a lot at the game. He has been able to put training into practice more frequently because of the skills of the players around him. He also benefits from the training that can be applied at the more mature level (the guys around him can make the more difficult plays).

If he were just a bigger kid, or a faster runner, he wouldn’t have the basis to really gain as much from the experience of playing up.

When my son plays up though, he takes the spot of a kid who was really at the right age to play. I am not so sure that is good for baseball – what if the other kid leaves the game? This year, my son is playing for a team that is almost an hour from our house. He took a spot from a local kid who in my opinion (what I saw at Try Outs) is a half-decent player. Hope this other kid hangs in.

You are right. Kids make friends fast. My son has played in three different cities now – seems everywhere we go we meet someone we have trained with. It has actually been a better experience having friends all over the place.

My son is now back at his own age group again. You can really see the difference. I am considering altering this (playing up) on and off until PeeWee year. The dilemma for next year is the great team he is on now vs. playing a year underage on an Elite team (Coach not I, is suggesting he play up). There are many training pro’s and con’s.

BTW My son played up at House League with a very capable coach. It made big differences at a relatively low cost. His AAA Rep team is about as good as it gets. In my opinion, playing up had a big part in it. Last year, he learned to pitch and hit “live” pitching a year early. There would be little gain this year. Next year though, playing up would mean larger diamonds a longer pitching mound and lead-off’s.

At the pre-HS age, there seems to be more time and less consequence to these moves.

My $0.02.

D

For the most part I have seen kids not do well playing up. My son has always played within his age and excelled doing it. This past winter he played up to prepare him for HighSchool. I think it was a good decision as two kids went on the make the FROSH team as eighthgraders. I only feel it is necessary to prepare kids for the next level such as HighSchool. Sometimes the parents are the culprits to have their kids play up though and it usually backfires on them. As the kids are not successful playing up and they lose their confidence.

I noticed that you associate Parent & culprit with kids who play up.
In no way did I ever interfere with my son playing up. As a 15YO he played 18U District Allstar which was an honor for him. His 1st game was a complete game 12 K 3-1 win. His team was 1 of 8 DA teams and they won the championship against some top ball players. Some are in the Minors and almost all went on to play US college ball. He wanted to play with that team and we were thrilled when he was asked. He also was selected by the coaches of the other teams to play in the Hall of Fame Allstar 17U game even though he was still a 16U player. These are big memories for him and us.
This summer he will be playing with many of these old teammates that he met on that team. He will be the youngest player on this open age senior Elite team. The bulk of the players are mid 20s up to 42 YO. They even got him a summer job paying $12 an hour that caters to his ball schedule. I guess you could say playing up pays.
As a minor bantam he pitched for the major bantam AAA`allstar team in every tournament as a regular starter. He got to pitch against the best bantam teams in Ontario and was selected for the Provincial team.
If you are asked to play up you really should if you want to be thye best player you can. You never know what doors will open.

I think a good part of it is also dictated by where you are playing.

The participants in this thread so far, are from a lot of different geographic areas (Canada, Upstate NY, Arizona, Southern California, etc.).

Last week, I chatted with a guy from Georgia. His son and my son are both ten and playing Rep level ball. His son has already played about thirty games and he will do about ninety games total this year. My son will probably do just over fifty. We played our first exhibition game just a week ago. They both train outside of their team environment.

In another thread awhile back, a guy from California did a bit of a study on how many players were still playing baseball at 14 from a list at age 11. If I recall correctly, it was up around 60%. In Ontario, it would be about 25% - lots of reasons I know. I also took a brief look at Canadians going to D1 schools - about 100 or so. What D1 schools are they going to though? How many are down south? Very very few.

My point is; I dont think it would be as likely that my son would be asked to play up a year in Southern California, or Arizona, or Florida, or Georgia.

The Elite tournament team my son is looking at is on the other side of the border. They have seen three clips of him when he was nine (Pitching, a 3 RBI double hit, and some Catching). I know it is a very limited view but, they replied one maybe even two years up. Size is not the issue - he would still be one of the bigger players. The big draw for us is that he would go to Cooperstown (and a couple other well attended Elite Tourneys) and see high caliber teams/players from the southern US. Dont downplay this point - some may take it for granted that they can drive down the road and see/play against a lot of high quality teams. I have already had one coach tell me get as much US experience as you can. Also, I dont realistically see the present team heading to the Dream Park in two years. I believe it is a different financial commitment to go there and not all parents would support it. IMHO, it is a great experience for my son and it is a chance to go early. There are some technical things too. He would pitch off a longer mound and run on larger basepaths a year early (making him more advanced to begin PeeWee).

In truth though, I can find no reason to move away from his current team other than the Dreams Park/US Elite experience one and the more challenging pitching situations. His current coaches and team mates will provide more than enough experiences and comradery.

There is a sliver of a possibility he could do both, as the Elite team is a weekend tournament team. I cant see that flying too well with the tourney conflicts.

What would you do?

D

My son has played up 2 age levels in Fall REC ball and still didn't find it as competitive as Elite travel ball at his age level. But like other posters have said, I am fortunate to live in an area where we can find great travel games whenever we want. He also didn't enjoy playing up as much because of a different peer group and lack of friends at his age. If you have a very talented son and travel ball isn't readily available in your area then by all means move him up to see better competition.

The goal should be for your son to get “as much” as he can from the game of baseball. “As much” may be batting .200 in recreational league baseball or it may be getting drafted in the first round of the MLB draft. I never told my son he needed to get better ---- Instead I always felt his goal was to get as much as he could from himself. While the end results may be the same the approach and motivation is completely different. Does that make sense?
I firmly believe any player at any level will be the happiest if he can get as much as possible from himself. I have always felt one of the most important things I did for my son was allow him (maybe push him a little) to move up. I can also say I never encouraged him to move into situation that I felt he could not compete. Finding his proper level of competition in the early years is very similar to finding the right “fit” when your son becomes college age. This all comes back to being able to look at your son and determine his talent level. Selecting your son’s competition (or teammates) in baseball is no different than placing your son in the proper academics classes. If he is a gifted student you wouldn’t place him in remedial reading of if he were challenged in general math you wouldn’t place him in trigonometry classes. Make sure he fits!!!! If your son is a talented player you need to place him in an environment where he can use his talent and that talent will produce meaningful results. If he is average he needs to be on an average team.
Your location also comes into the picture too. We live in a small town compared to most. It was hard to find a fit in our town. At eleven I moved my son from the local rec ball to the best 13 yr old travel team in our home town. He wanted more. Basically he had to go to another town --- AND move up ---- to find his proper fit and remain challenged. Granted HE made himself the player he is --- but by moving him up and moving away helped him accomplish his goals.
Fungo

Fungo

Excellent post.

baseballbum

Baseball is party physical and partly mental.

Watch the kids in t-ball - even that early there is a great difference in game knowledge. One kid will catch the ball, then turn and tag the base for a double play - while the runner isn't even sure yet which base to run to next.

As Fungo says, playing up is about finding the right fit. For some kids, they need to be moved up to play kids who are playing the same game level they are. For others, it would be foolish to move them up.

In our cirsumstance I truly believe that is the best thing we ever did for our son. He was very successful playing against kids who were one-two years older than him. Thus, he was never intimidated by older and bigger players.

This experience gave him the confidence to go into hs and college as a 5'8" player and be quite successful, against players still much bigger than him.

Each family has to look at the situation with the players own unique talents and needs in mind.

AParent you said the right word "confidence". You have to believe you can play with who ever you get a chance.
Thinking back I remember when my son was playing up at tournaments only and he got open static from the parents and a few players. He just ignored it and did his job. All part of baseball.
This summer he is playing with players who average mid 20s and the oldest is 42. Most are college,ex college and minor league players. Several of his teammates he has played with before. At 19 he is the youngest player on the team. They tried to sign him last year and he went to a team meeting. They welcomed him with open arms. After the meeting he said it was weird because most of them were talking about their kids.
Without the playing up he would have a tough time fitting in. We have very good ball teams and you can play until you can't play anymore.

In our area, there were scores of travel teams. Thus our travel team could pick and choose who we played or did not play. We avoided teams that were too easy (and also teams that brought too many headaches with them, but that's another issue).

It may be different if you're in an area where quality competition is harder to come by, but I still think there is value to having the stellar player play "on age". For one thing, it allows him to experience success. I always wondered about kids who seemed determined to move up until they were overmatched and thus, having no fun. Hey, if you get to MLB, you can hit .250 and be a success, but who wants to do that at age 12? Let the kid enjoy being a stud, being the kid his friends talk about around school, etc. After all, who knows, this may be the one time in his life he gets to experience that.

At age 14, we saw so many travel teams disbanding or consolidating that local choices dwindled. Still, we avoided "playing up" opportunities that year; we started to expand how far we would travel to find good opposition. One of our big concerns was with him being a pitcher and the pressure that playing with older kids would bring to start relying heavily on throwing curves. We wanted to stick with development of the fastball and change-up, and of control, leaving curveball development for when he was a bit older yet.

At the end of his 14u summer we folded our local travel team and he joined a national travel team. This has been a great move for him and the timing seems to have worked out extremely well. Now a 16u team, this team "plays up" all the time -- we're still young, but opposing teams are often older. The results have been tremendous. Son's confidence level is very high. Looking back, I feel like we were really just feeling our way through it and in the end, we were lucky to make the choices that fit right for our son.

I have seen a select few players really profit from "playing up". What my experience leads me to conclude is, it's a better option for position players/hitters than for those who are primarily pitchers. But generally, it can wait, and there are many good reasons to counsel patience.

Most good sophomores are essentially "playing up" when they make their HS varsity squads, so by that time it's really not much of an issue. But for the kids who are 9-13, what is everyone in such an all-fired hurry for?

this question is often re-visited and the responses on this board may not reflect those in your community

youth sports basicly have age groups to minimize any unfair advantage over others by virtue of the player's maturity. that said there will be a VERY wide range of ability/skills in any one age group within any community.

it is NOT in a community league's best interest to group players of similar ability ... that would lead to really good teams & really bad teams. soo, they do their best to balance them out with each team having the full range of some pretty good guys ... to guys that can't play catch.

travel teams offer a better chance for fit because you can choose, but there are sooo many these days you can fall into a similar situation ... a wide skill range, but now the lesser ones CAN play catch

this is NOT a good learning/development situation.

a player that's a competitor can pretty easily see the need to compete at the right skill level disregarding age. after all, in hs he'd play up, in college he'd play up, & those few fortunate enough to play beyond college "really play up"

the downside ... is that you are often seen as a snobby, self centered, traitor, lower than a snake's belly by some coaches/parents whom have been denied some championship/trophy because you did not play on THEIR TEAM

In our case my son usually played on his AAA travel teamas well. At several points he played on 4 teams. The Elite team was a weekend team and the AAA team allowed him to miss practices knowing he was playing or practicing. The AAA team played into late Aug and scheduled his pitching around his Elite shedule. The District Allstar was based on the best players on the AAA teams in the district. He was moved up to 18U at 15. The coach actually said it was unfair to him to play 16U.
He has seized every opportunity to advance. While throwing in the outfield at a AAA game he was spotted by Ron Davies the former NY midle reliever who was the pitching coach for a pro team run out of Welland and invited to throw bullpen for him. After the 1st bull pen he gave him an open invite to work out and throw bull pen for him.
Opportunity is out there and you have to put yourself in the right place. To me I can't make him want to advance his skills . he is the only one and he never turned down an opportunity to play up.
I strongly believe that this experience has been the greatest advantage to him. He has pitched sucessfully against minor league batters at 17 and up.

I would tend to agree with gogolf on the two years up a Rec Ball thing. It all depends upon the situation. 2005 was very lucky for us in terms of playing up at Rec. A couple of nights ago, we went out to watch our local travel team practice – two/three years up. My son was pretty appalled: we left to throw some hoops.

Playing up does not always mean, you’re on the outside. In some ways, moving around a lot and playing with older guys builds a lot of character and confidence. My son winter-trained and Tried out with an older team in Cambridge (45 minutes south of home) two years ago. He got cut (he was not ready). He played locally that summer for the travel team – frustrated with the level of play, and a rec. fastball team – fun. At the end of the summer he Tried Out with a team in Guelph (twenty minutes south) for a two week period. Don’t know why he didn’t make it but, he lived. Four weeks later, he began training with an older team in Brantford (1:15 south). He went there for six months and I’m not sure how he could have not made it at the spring Try Out. He played Rec a year underage last summer in Waterloo (30 minutes southwest) – a phenomenal experience. During all of this time, he trained at facilities in Guelph (20 minutes south), Mississauga (1 hour southeast), and Brantford (1:15 south) with kids his age and a year or so older. He is now on an AAA Rep travel team that is in Georgetown (50 minutes south of here) which is the closest team to us in the COBA loop on the west end of Toronto. Through all of this, good and bad, my son has learned to make friends fast and assimilate himself. It’s funny, even thought we are in a loop that is a long way off from our home, we seem to know a lot of our opponents better than most of the people that have been playing there all along.

There are a lot of times during the past couple of year’s that my son’s confidence could have been crushed. He worked through it all, got good enough to “make the team”, and then enough to become an advanced player. I think playing up has been instrumental in gaining confidence. He has developed some very cool methods of internalizing to “amp it up” for both game-day offense and defense.

For two years, he has played “slow pitch” with adults on Sunday afternoon’s – what he claims is “the best baseball there is”. This year, they no longer hold back on their throws to him at 1B (stretchin’ and snaggin’ the big ball).

D

Nothing you sure do get around.