So...for several years now, I have been reading all the good stuff on this site. I've really appreciated the words of wisdom from so many fine folks.

Over the years, I've heard the term daddy ball mentioned lots of time. I guess what I want to know is, since I'm a dad, and I intend on coaching my son, when will I be accused of fostering "daddy ball"?

For 15 years, I've coached the one of the top 17-18 travel teams in MD. Neither me nor my assistant coaches have son's on the team (save a couple of years ago, and they were highly qualified assistants who coach in high school).

Now my son is approaching coach pitch age, so I will begin to coach him. I've been asked by friends about travel baseball, and my reply is "I don't know how long he will stick with baseball if the neighbor boys (18 and 21) keep putting a lacrosse stick in his hand"? He will play rec ball at least 3 or 4 years, and then we will see.

So...what is daddy ball? Since it is rec, my philosophy is that kids should play multiple positions provided they don't play in a position that will cause danger to them (ie. a kid who can't catch playing 1B). My son will play as much OF as he will IF. But what if eventually he is a really good SS and when he gets to be 10 or 11 and we actually start to try and win games, will I be a "daddy ball" guy if I play him at SS quite a bit because he is most suited for it?

Rec ball includes a lot of people playing for a variety of reasons: excersize, the value of the team experience, experimenting with different sports, because it's the game Mom or Dad love, child's interest in the game, athletic ability, "healthy" babysitting, an older sibling's experience. It's always good to keep this in mind.

Parents (the universally acknowledged bane of youth sports ) each have their own filters through which they observe the team. Parents will believe that their child is every bit as talented as yours (and some may/will be, but I'm talking about those that clearly aren't) "if only he/she were given the chance". I would explain that they earn their positions and innings in practice, and that giving a child a chance in the All Important Infield doesn't lead to success and "self esteem" (Lor, I hate that phrase) if the child hasn't shown that they have developed the skills to field and throw well enough to make it a good experience for them. But we would continue to work with them until that happens.

I would then generally ask (say in the situation where the child is afraid of the ball) what happens when they play catch with their child in the backyard. This was generally met with a pauzzled expression. "Practice is "class", the games are "tests"...."homework" will help your child get better." Make them a partner in the process.

Of course, true Daddy Ball exists. But a very reasonable couple from our LL days put it well --- "Your child has a chance to compete for one of eight positions on the field. The ninth belongs to the coach's child. It's payment for all the time put in."

If your child is clearly a stand-out player, the accusations will be fewer. But many of the parents you encounter will not be equipped to judge that, or will have an inflated view of their own player's skill. So you can't always avoid the Daddy Ball label from some folks; it doesn't mean it's true.

My definition of a successful season was that each player ended the season a better player than they started. Seeing that progress will help even the most delusional parent see the value of their child playing for you.

Welcome to Daddy Ball!

Actually at the ages before 12, as many dads we could round up coached our kids. At the young age of coach pitch, we also played all the kids at different positions and all sat at some time of the game. When we hit 10 and became more competitive, as a league, players started to specialize more and when they were 12, it was very competitive within the league. We also played tournaments from 9-12 years old during the summer after the league was over.

At the age of 13, we left the league and played travel ball and officially left "Daddy Ball" at that age we felt that he needed to get ready for high school and we wanted him to start seeing the best competition he could and be coached by someone else other than fathers.

I read the posts about travel ball teams having fathers and the challenges they have when their players happen not to be the best player in his position and the problems it creates for other players, with non-parent coaches determine the line-up it makes it easy to say the coach determines the lineup and develop the player to their fullest extent.

There are times where coaches happen to have their children on the team, but it can cause problems unless the player is just a stud and there is no question who the best player is and there are no conflicts for a given position.

The above is true.

However some of the best coaches are "dads" and often times more qualified than the paid "professional" coaches. Some, and I say some professional coaches are only in it for the money. The "dads" while sometimes showing favoritism to their kids are doing it without getting paid and because they enjoy working with kids. Some "dads" don't play their kid at SS (even though he is the best ss on the team) because they don't want to be called a "daddy ball" coach. Of course there are always the exceptions. I guess my point is you can't make a blanket statement one way ot the other.

My husband coached Rec for years. Sometimes no matter what he did, it was wrong. You will probably be accused of a number of things. Then again, you may just be playing with parents who think a catcher can throw a ball and hit a runner for an out.

Keep that thick skin.

Daddyball is about UNEQUAL opportunity and is prevalent in almost all cases where parents coach their son. Daddyball is meant to be a derogatory label conjured up by the “other” disgruntled parents and envious others and is placed on fathers (or mothers) which assume a proactive role (usually coaching) with the primary goal of providing opportunity for their own child. I never had a big problem with daddyball because I was confident my son would succeed without special opportunities. I always looked at it that the less talented players needed more opportunities to gain some semblance of success while the talented others need only a smidgen of opportunity to succeed. Ever notice how daddyball coaches let their son ride the coattails of the talented player. Ever hear them say: “My son and your son are -------“

quote:

My son will play as much OF as he will IF. But what if eventually he is a really good SS and when he gets to be 10 or 11 and we actually start to try and win games, will I be a "daddy ball" guy if I play him at SS quite a bit because he is most suited for it?

Yes! Remember this is about OPPORTUNITY not talent. At the start of the post you hope you will not be a "daddyball" coach and by the end of your post you have admitted you probably will be. Daddyball coaches are parents!!!!! All parents have trouble seeing things as they really are. They tend to see things as they want them to be. This has nothing to do with baseball. THAT'S NORMAL!

PS: Go on --- Play your son at shortstop --- we understand.
Fungo

If you are the coach and your son is on the team, get ready, you will be accused of favoritism whether it's true or not.

Just be aware of what's right and what's not and do what's right. And be careful, often times the most innocent things are misperceived, especially by parents whose kids are struggling on the field, or whose kids might want to play where your son plays or get the mound innings he gets. As noted above it's often more a matter of what filter you view it through. But without question there are teams built for no reason other than to promote the coach's son, and if you find your son is a member of someone else's supporting cast it's a good time to move on.

quote:

I guess what I want to know is, since I'm a dad, and I intend on coaching my son, when will I be accused of fostering "daddy ball"?....

But what if eventually he is a really good SS and when he gets to be 10 or 11 and we actually start to try and win games, will I be a "daddy ball" guy if I play him at SS quite a bit because he is most suited for it?

Great questions Larry. If he produces in the field and at the plate you shouldn't hear about it too much. The thing is at those ages, lots of mistakes are going to be made by ALL players so it is easy for someone to criticize your decisions. They may feel if only their son were given a chance at SS then he ultimately would "develop" into the better player. There is nebulousness in all that because in some cases some will hang their hat on the one good game their kid plays out of five as proof they are right and at the same time they will not let you forget the bad game your kid had two weeks ago.

Since I still can't believe to this day how bad some parent-coaches were in our experience, here are some rambling stories...

In some cases not only did the Dad coach play their kid at SS when there were better players on the team, they batted them in the 3-hole when they were one of the worst hitters on the team.

These same type of people would see their kids get two hits after going 0-9 and proclaim their sons were smoking the ball. Once my son started a tournament 7-7 and in the next game went 0-4. The coach came up to me after the game and said I can't believe how bad he is struggling

My son once had a grandslam and knocked in 9 runs in a game we won 13-5. After the game, the coach had this long speech about giving the game ball out and it seemed obvious who would get it. He said and the game ball goes to - our pitcher I could have killed the guy as blood rushed to my head. No problem giving a ball to the pitcher but he did not even mention my son.

My son was a good pitcher and threw a 1 hitter against the best team in our area that year. After the game, the coach never acknowledged the pitching performance. During the post-game meeting, the opposing coach walked over and asked our coach if he could interrupt. He said he had never done this before but he wanted to give a game ball to my son for the game he pitched. I had to hold back tears because I knew there was a higher power at play.

In the final game of the season that year, we were in the championship game. That coach had long since given up pitching my son because he said he was not big enough. None of the pitchers they threw in the game were effective and they finally brought my son in as a last resort. He never allowed another hit over the last four innings and we won the tournament for our last game together when they were 12 years old.

Though all this, I learned that not only are their some that will blindly favor their own they will down-grade other kids which is sinful imho.

Larry - you mentioned winning and I do believe winning is the deal in sports but not paramount at those ages. Kids can learn how to win and still have fun. Maybe your kid is the best SS but what does it hurt to give some other kid a chance at the postion? If your son is a good infielder, let him play 2b and 3b while also giving other kids a chance. Obviously, it makes no sense having a first baseman play SS and your catchers are going to have to want to play that position. Try your son at different spots in the batting order also. Most importantly, if a kid was good enough to make your team in the first place, let them ALL play. Let them all try different spots in the order. One way to achieve this is during our travel years we played local league games during the week and tournaments on weekends. Those league games gave a good opportunity to to mix things up. You could also reward the producers with the plum spots on the weekends while still giving others their opportunities to play.

Here is the bottom line in all this imho. Coaches who remove competitive pressures from their sons will ultimately hurt them imho even though they may believe they are helping them. At the same time, even if you are completely fair about things and perhaps even are less fair to your son than you ought to be - some people will still complain. That is the life of a coach who happens to also be a Dad. I believe God is watching and that things generally work out like they ought to in the long run.

Daddy ball isn't just about playing time or who gets to be shortstop, especially in rec ball. Here are some situations which aren't likely to generate complaints by a disgruntled parent, but which I view as undesireable.

One fairly prevalent negative aspect is the scapegoating of other players for a head or assistant coach's son's mistake. For example, runners at first and third, and an unsuccessful double steal attempt. If one of the runners is the son of a coach, which runner receives the benefit of "constructive criticism"? Some coaches are very hard on their own kid, but the majority seem to find fault with another player. I don't think either reaction is desireable.

Some coaches overuse pitchers, especially during Little League tournament time. In my experience, they only do this with their own kid. It's a bad emotional dynamic: an eager kid convincing his dad that he's OK to continue.

Some kids have had a lot of practice at baseball, and have developed skills, in spite of mediocre talent or minimal self-generated desire to play the game. Of course, their dad will be their coach, and he will probably practice Daddy Ball. Sooner or later, certainly by freshman year in high school, reality will set in. Frequently, it ain't pretty.

Without parent coaches, there would be very few coaches in rec ball. My own kids had coaches who were all fine people with the best of intentions. Some practiced Daddy Ball, and some didn't. It was all good; it's OK to learn at 9 or 10 years old that not everything in life is decided by objective criteria.

The strong team becomes the weak team when coach's son becomes the weak player in the team. This travel team will not last for a year. Basicly either the coach gone with his kid or this team becomes a new team every year. When chose a youth team, you should check out the coach's son first, if his son is a weak player, forget about, go find another team ASAP. There's no future of this team. JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

My son once had a grandslam and knocked in 9 runs in a game we won 13-5. After the game, the coach had this long speech about giving the game ball out and it seemed obvious who would get it. He said and the game ball goes to - our pitcher I could have killed the guy as blood rushed to my head. No problem giving a ball to the pitcher but he did not even mention my son.

.

hi, CLevelandDad: You got too much egos in yoour heart. There's no reason to kill the coach over a game ball. To my opinion, your son got his highlights on "ESPN", he doesn't need the game ball.
Let the fact speak for itsself. You knew it, other parents knew it, and the American people knew it.
This happened to my son all the time, because he is the top player, coaches alway shy away to give him anymore praises, just to keep our egos down. I can understand it. What I am looking for is 3 things:
1. Where my son bats in the batting order?
2. How many games he pitched?
3. How many positions he played?

Batting 3rd, pitch every week, play infield/outfield all season long, what else should I ask for? A game ball???

quote:

hi, CLevelandDad: You got too much egos in yoour heart. There's no reason to kill the coach over a game ball. To my opinion, your son got his highlights on "ESPN", he doesn't need the game ball.

Welcome to the hssbbweb

There was no ego involved - I am talking about common decency and it had nothing to do with a ball. Also, I was not talking about literally killing the coach but how I felt for my son at the time. I did not ask the coach to single any players out and would have preferred he did not give out any game balls.

Curious if ego is not involved why does it matter where your son bats in the order? I agree with you that getting a game ball is unimportant.

Did you see my son on ESPN this past spring btw in the NCAA regionals from Myrtle Beach? I do agree with with that comment because he is the only one who still plays baseball from the hundreds of kids he has played with in the past.

Larry(if I may call you that),
Coaching is always appreciated! Just to echo a few sentiments. I hope that your son is the stud on the team when they get a little older. It makes all the problems go away. Do your son a favor and teach him outfield also. As you probably know, it is a skill set that he will need and it will keep a lot of the other parents off your back if he is out there on occaision. I know it is hard for every parent out there, but if you bat him in the top 4 it had better be because he earned it!! The other players will know.
Bad daddyball usually involves all of the coaches kids playing infield and pitching only plus always batting in the top 4. Keep stats in case there are any questions on why they are in the top four. If your stats don't prove it, you may be playing daddyball.

Talk to parents and players and ask them where they want to play. Give them a legitimate chance in practice and the games. Especially when they are 8-9 years old. As you know, kids develop at different levels, the clumsy kid at 8 could be the ballerina at SS by age 12. Always keep the options open and it will help to keep the kids honest and playing hard.

But if you coach your own son expect some abuse no matter how good he is. It goes with the territory. That is one of the reasons that I stopped coaching my son at the age of ten. Plus the fact that he had heard everything I had to say and there are definitley better coaches than me out there. For some reason, I always did better with other peoples kids than my own.
Something to think about.

Sometimes the daddyball label is unfair. A few years back in rec ball we needed to diffuse some parents who were upset about the batting order and such. We began to publish the batting averages on a weekly basis. It stopped all arguments. What would have made it a daddyball situation would have been continuing to bat one of our sons at the top of the lineup when they didn’t earn it. The other thing we did was to make sure our kids sat out an inning or two like the other kids. For us no kid sat out 2 innings in a row. Again this was rec ball.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
[Curious if ego is not involved why does it matter where your son bats in the order?

What I want say is that forget about the after game comments, think about the real benefits of playing in this team more. If your coach bat your son last, bench him every now and then, never let him stand on the pitching mound, then think about "killing" the coach (Just kidding), Chasing the unreal fame is not the things to do at the little league level. To improve my son's skill level every year is what I like to focus on.
Please let me know, which spot your son bats? (batting 3rd will obiviosly give him more AT BAT.) How many games he pitched?( In case you want your Grand Slam hitter become a pitcher someday.) Which other positions your son play? (To improve his infield and outfield skills). This is not ego, it's called player development.

quote:

Originally posted by xbcoachoh62:

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
[Curious if ego is not involved why does it matter where your son bats in the order?

What I want say is that forget about the after game comments, think about the real benefits of play in this team more. If your coach bat your son last, bench him every now and then, never let him stand on the pitching mound, then think about "killing" the coach (Just kidding), Chasing the unreal fame is not the things to do at the little league level. To improve my son's skill level every year is what I like to focus on.
Please let me know, which spot your son bats? (batting 3rd will obiviosly give him more AT BAT.) How many games he pitched?( In case you want your Grand Slam hitter become a pitcher someday.) Which position your son play? (To improve his infield and outfield skills). This is not ego, it's called player development.

Coach I was telling stories from 10 years ago about 10/12 year olds and don't have a clue what you are trying to say other than it appears you are trying to get in my face. Most know me as very easy to get along with and I am really trying here.

Look, I welcomed you on to the hsbbweb and your posts seem inflamatory in response. You also seem like you are trying to conceal your identity. In some sentences it sounds like Espanol is your first language and in others you practice remarkably good grammer. If you have a beef with me or are trying to get my dander up please take it off line or refrain from posting.

quote:

Originally posted by philsfan:
Sometimes the daddyball label is unfair. A few years back in rec ball we needed to diffuse some parents who were upset about the batting order and such. We began to publish the batting averages on a weekly basis. It stopped all arguments. What would have made it a daddyball situation would have been continuing to bat one of our sons at the top of the lineup when they didn’t earn it. The other thing we did was to make sure our kids sat out an inning or two like the other kids. For us no kid sat out 2 innings in a row. Again this was rec ball.

Very nice post and I agree. Also agree that rec ball versus travel ball are entirely different considerations.

sorry ClevelandDad,
If my posts give you that impression. I am not direct it at you. I knew it's an old story, I tried to use it as a example to illustrate "Daddy Ball". The "Daddy ball" usually got a lot of egos involved. I am 100% sure that post is not against you. Especially for a ten-year's old story.

sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by xbcoachoh62:
sorry ClevelandDad,
If my posts give you that impression. I am not direct it at you. I knew it's an old story, I tried to use it as a example to illustate "Daddy Ball". The "Daddy ball" usually got a lot of egos involved. I am 100% sure that post is not against you. Especially as a ten-year's old story.

sorry.

Thanks. Again, welcome to the hsbbweb

BTW - I agree. True Daddy ball is about ego - usually the parents. Like others have said, if Dad's gave up coaching then our youth leagues would probably disappear and that would not be good. I believe Dad's can coach effectively if they are fair and realize that some people will oppose them anyways. It comes with the job. It's possible that the best pre-training for a politician might be to serve as a youth baseball coach

You will only be accused of daddyball if your son is on the team.

Now the accusations may be isolated or widespread. The accusation may be justified or unjustified. But in all likelihood at least one parent will accuse you of daddyball. This will be the parent who is unhappy with their son's playing time, position, etc.

Daddyball is the situation of a dad giving his son preferential treatment. Pure and simple.

Don't make the mistake I did, however. In attempting to ensure that there was no perception of preferential treatment of my son, I went the other extreme and was too hard on him.