quote:

Originally posted by East Cobb Baseball:
jonr12,

Are you saying UGA brings in 20-30+ new players each year?

Most teams have a 40+ man roster in Fall. UGA has I believe 39 or 40 this Fall. Also realize with the Hope scholly there can be some Fall walk-ons with limited chance to make Spring Roster (and IMO know it) but it gets them accepted to the school( even if they have the grades for regular admission as u might know it is still a cr#pshoot to actually get accepted). I have also heard they have had some kids in the past for Fall that are legacy's. This is where Grandpa or Dad have been big supporters of a school and want Johnny to get a shot with no promises past Fall. I think this may be a fairly common practice in schools but I am just shooting from the hip. South Carolina has about 46 for the Fall. Also UGA lost 5 starting fielders and 3 pitchers to Graduation or the Draft. There were also 6 other non-returners this year, some transferred, some stayed at school and realized baseball was passing them by. So roughly 14 from last years roster are gone (give or take). I beleive only 2 were Freshman. Now also you need to figure in potential injuries. I was at their scrimmage on Friday and saw 1 player on crutches and heard another is going under the knife as well. Stuff happens.

I'm not sure if there is a point here except to say that especially with Baseball, Rosters turn. I saw a stat that said something like 30% of the Top 200 recruited players transferred during their College career. If the top 200 who to a certain degree can pick their school are dissatisfied for whatever reason it can and does happen to all players.

IMO financial, academic, and non-baseball reasons do account for a significant amount of turnover but I'm sure coaches at all schools have issues with unhappy players. Some of it is the coach some is the player and sometimes it is just not the right fit and kid will know it.

quote:

Originally posted by obrady:
If the information is available, it would be interesting to see what type/level of monies the out of staters got.

Not sure where u are going with this but I would think out of staters are highly recruited since with out of state tuition there is more of a financial burden on the families. UGA 7 out of staters this Fall (approx)

Easy way to look at the numbers.

I looked at 7 schools took 5 min., 4 SEC, 2 ACC and one PAC 12,

Mean recruiting class size = 18
median - 16
mode -15

Take any of these numbers multiply by 4 and subtract 30-34 = avg roster size.

That leaves you somewhere between 25 and 35 kids over recruited over 4 years or about 6-9 each year that will fall off for whatever reason. Realistically the number of freshemen
that will graduate from the high D1 that signed them is about a third.

Luckily most of the smart HSBBWEB parents know this and accept the chance.

If a 2007 Grad is offered a scholarship this coming Nov for the 2007-2008 freshman year; doesn't he have a guaranteed spot on that 35-40 man roster?

Who are the players being cut for the 18 or so incoming 2007-2008 recruits; rising sophomores? rising juniors?

mrmom, the class size assumptions for yrs following the freshman yr aren't valid

quote:

it would be interesting to see what type/level of monies the out of staters got

not sure why that info would be usefull to you, but one could rightly assume that each out of state guy got enough to close the deal for him. likely a different amount for each depending on position etc, but nevertheless enough to land each recruit


.

eastcobb

you are from the area---why you asking questions like this?--skunk in the woodpile me thinks

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
eastcobb

you are from the area---why you asking questions like this?--skunk in the woodpile me thinks

I agree TR

A friend of mine's son is being recruited and we're tryng to get our hands around what happens at UGA.

Rather than listening to rumors, I posted hoping someone with a sophomore or junior at UGA could shed some light.

Bee

They are exactley valid unless you are disputing that large D1 programs add between 15-20 players each year. If you do the research you'll find they do. Mid D1s will have 8-12 and smalls 6-10. The difference is that big D1s can recruit knowing that any kid that starts with them will have little trouble transferring down a level. Just starting with South Carolina, Arizona State, Florida etc. gives a player credibility that a mid D1 or lower will jump on if it doesn't work out for the player. Happens to hundreds of players a year.

What it sounds like you are disputing is that the soph. junior senior class is that large. That's my point, they aren't!The point is they succesively get smaller because players fall, leave, transfer whatever.

It is a valid projetion technique for any school if you have the data that says what's their annual new class size vs. what they're spring roster size is.

mm, yes my contention was that class size naturally decreases each yr at most pgms.
I also contend that a program consistently higher than 8-12 recruits is over-recruiting -
note - there could be occasional high # yrs because of shortages or unusuall turnover caused by the draft, injuries, & other unforseen stuff

the only conclusion I can reach is that the guys ALWAYS bringing in large classes do so for 2 reasons (one or both)

1) because they CAN & are basicly lazy -
they also are the dream school of many players, mostly from their own state, and have enjoyed competitive sucess at the expense of cutting/tranferring (adios amigos) or otherwise discarding their excess players like moldy tomatoes

2) they are not very good at identifing talent that fits their program

OR BOTH


.

Bee,

Exactly, they do it because they can. As long as players and parents know what the deal is then -- OK. Sometimes though I know they don't!

quote:

Originally posted by mrmom:
Bee,

Exactly, they do it because they can.

They also do it because,,,
-the other top programs are doing it
-to stay competitive and keep their jobs
-to offset academic, financial, injuries, and other reasons kids leave.

In theory the NCAA graduation requirements should help reduce recruiting sizes since this impacts grad rates for a program and loss of scholarships available.

quote:

by nd: They also do it because,,,
-the other top programs are doing it
-to stay competitive and keep their jobs
-to offset academic, financial, injuries, and other reasons kids leave

that's hogwash

many top progams DO NOT recruit that way & any that do fall under the catagories I noted above
eventually you'll see that those reasons are valid - I just hope its not too late for ya

quote:

by mm: they do it because they can. As long as players and parents know what the deal is then

unfortunatly, even tho this is an ever growing site offering a wealth of info, there are still tons of players & parents who are relatively uninformed getting blindsided



**
my comments are in general & not necessarily directed at UGA, so no offense should be taken by UGA players-fans-boosters-potential recruits & suggest the afforementioned get a non-UGA friend to read my posts to them s-l-o-w-l-y several times until they understand
(well, maybe way more than several)


.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
that's hogwash

many top progams DO NOT recruit that way
.

Bee... I'm saying that many programs recruit as Mrmom said

"Mean recruiting class size = 18
median - 16
mode -15

Take any of these numbers multiply by 4 and subtract 30-34 = avg roster size.

That leaves you somewhere between 25 and 35 kids over recruited over 4 years or about 6-9 each year that will fall off for whatever reason. Realistically the number of freshemen
that will graduate from the high D1 that signed them is about a third."

I am not saying that most schools bring in 25 Freshman. That I agree with you. Also some schools will go up and down based on yearly circumstances.

IMO if a school is only recruiting to a 28 man roster I believe they will be hard pressed to stay competitive in the ACC or SEC. Now if you are talking about other smaller conferences than you are right.

The other issue which will take us in a different direction is when a JUCO kid shows up and takes your position.

One item with Mrmom is that he states that 6-9 are "overrecruited". I don't agree with that # I think it is lower because you do need to plan for kids to leave for reasons that are out of the schools control.

I agree that your target school should be trying to put together a 30-34 man roster -
but totaly disagree that they need to bring in more than that to do so -


.

quote:

by nd: if a school is only recruiting to a 28 man roster I believe they will be hard pressed to stay competitive in the ACC or SEC.

ouch! you "bought the myth" - hook, line & sinker


ie: GT normally has about a 32-34 roster

yr - - recruit class (subtract "never got to campus" () )

2001 . . . 9 (1) . . . ACC reg season & tournament champions, NCAA super regional
2002 . . . 9 (2) . . . NCAA regional, super & CWS
2003 . . . 9 (1) . . . ACC tournament champions, NCAA regional
2004 . . . 9 (1) . . . ACC reg season champions, NCAA super regional
2005 . . . 10 (2) . . ACC reg season & tournament champions, NCAA super regional
2006 . . . 10 (1) . . NCAA regional, super & CWS


.

Bee...
I think we will need to agree to disagree...

As far as GT I don't profess to have any knowledge on their recruiting practices I also know that there are schools that over recruit.

One thing to note on GT's website it shows 12 recruits for 2005 not the 9 listed in your post and thats fine. 4 of them did redshirt and 2 others had less than 10 AB's. They also had a roster of 34. Now if you want to believe they only had 34 players in the Fall and did not cut anyone thats fine. ouch! you "bought the myth" - hook, line & sinker


Anyway you can make #'s work for you or against.

quote:

by nd: Anyway you can make #'s work for you or against

not trying to make #'s work "any" way & NEVER said some schools don't over-recruit -
just saying it is NOT NECESSARY to compete, as YOU say

my class reference were the freshman arriving at school for the '05 playing season
(signing Nov '03, arriving fall '04, playing spring '05) I stand corrected tho - it was 11 with 2 chosing pro -
same net result - 9 arriving new players

it's not really a matter of us agreeing -
your premise that teams MUST bring in large #'s & make cuts to be competitive is just FALSE

quote:

Now if you want to believe they only had 34 players in the Fall and did not cut anyone thats fine

ummm . . . not sure I understand your statement
the fall roster is THE roster ... there are no players cut, tho occasionally ADDED
(the walk-on tryout last only a few days)

and - redshirts are NOT determined in the fall, they are discussed as an "option to benefit the player" in season if position depth indicates very little PT - unless injury factors

what sort of coach would identify talent suitable for his program, recruit him, then cut him after a 30 day fall workout anyway?? (rhetorical)


.

re: the 4 rs in '05 signing class -
there were jrs who unexpectedly remained at school & on the team instead of going pro

that happens sometimes & speaks highly of the school, their baseball program & the type of players they get
including the rs players who could have just transferred to another school


.

Bee needs no help here, but I went back and looked at the last 2 years of recruits.

2005 Dewitt, and Prasch, (drafted and signed)
Payne, and Weiters (Major starters)
Burns (hurt both years)still there
Ladd, Rulon, pitched major innnings this year
Feltes played limited roll backing up Wes Hodges, still
there.
Vidic was hurt if I remember, then transfered to Tulane and
not sure if he played
Futral pitched as Frosh, then tranferred to JC.

Doesn't look like over recruiting

2006 Jackson, drafted and signed
Cracer, JUCO Major starter
Murton, House, played in majority of games
Duncan, Hicks , pitched major innings
Haniger, Harbins, played limited innings
Dantzler, Wenderoth were Red Shirted
Sullivan on roster DNP not sure if R/S or if still there

again no over recruiting, and R/S will get major opportunities
this year


IMO, Tech does it pretty well, especially for a major college always in contention for Omaha, and continualy losing Jr's to the draft. Can't say the same for many of the other schools though.