quote:

I attended a JUCO, my son did not, didn't make much of my education, (especially English),

Fo
You could have fooled ALL of us.....

Historically, I am not very Economical with my English........

TR,
Let me explain what I meant. GPA and SAT's are listed by info given by the player for showcases, teams, etc. Coach asks to have a copy of transcript (in our case coming directly from the school marked official). The actual transcript (current) is sometimes way off from the listed GPA.
In other words, the player listed his 9th grade GPA as 3.2 but by the time he reached his junior year it was way below 3.0, the coaches requirement. This seems to occur a bit.
I suggest to parents to update their sons GPA/SAT each year. I find it interesting that parents make sure their sons BA and ERA and velocity is updated annually, but not the GPA.

TPM

I agree that an official transcript can be forwarded to a school prior to graduation. It is official, to that point in time, and comes directly from the guidance office, appropriately stamped....official.

TxMom-Agree with your last post 100%. I think we as parents lots of times get wrapped up
in "status" and "names" (what will impress our peers) as opposed to what will best meet the needs of our sons.

Example-Local prep school has the "name", "status", IVY league schools clammering for its
graduates, very expensive,etc. We thought this should be the route to take our son's freshman year. Bottom line-they were not as advanced as the public school-didn't open a book and had virtually no home work and "breezed through the year and basically got little or no "education". But, we could SAY he was a "preppie" and everyone would be impressed???? He was not happy at the school and next year went back to the public system and he actually had to study to make his grades.

I guess what I'm saying is that an "education" is in the eyes of the beholder and some of the most educated people I know went to schools I've never heard of. I say if your son loves baseball and has "some" ability, choose the program where he will be able to
compete and fit in with players and coaches of similar values. My fondest memories of college were not of doing term papers and study groups, but of the times spent on the
diamond. There's always graduate school to get that "name" diploma.

BTW, this post is not meant to denigrate those who value education over athletics, both can be accomplished at the same time but from experience it's a lot more enjoyable when
one is sitting in English 101 and knowing fall practice starts at 2:30 and you can't wait to get there.

Moc,
Good post. For me it's not necessarily putting the value of education first. My son lives for his time on the field, it makes his experience better, what he lives for each day, NOT going to class.
Bottom line is, you HAVE to attend classes, whereever you go, make sure they are classes you can handle.

Moc

I was a "preppie". I am sure you are very impressed.

Academics and education are two different things. I have to agree with BEE and many others on the topic of education: The responsibility of an education rest with the “student” no matter where that student is...D-1, JUCO, prep, public, ivy, or even those NOT in college. My wife and I are opposites. She has a degree from a D-1 college and I have never attended college.... If I remember correctly I barely made it through Algebra I in high school and I know I flunked at least one English class. I think she minored in communications but last week she admittedly tried to text message my son on his cell phone by putting in his email address. By society’s standards she is educated and I am uneducated. (thank goodness she has trouble finding the HSBBW)
No matter where we are or what we’re doing, everyday day of our lives is an opportunity for education. We can either choose to accept it or we can ignore it.
Fungo

Dad, I KNOW you.....and you're no John F. Kennedy!!!!

It's your LONG drives that impress me.

Initially, we didn't believe a JUCO "lined up with our son's academic ability." He was a top student with a high SAT score and I feared that he wouldn't be challenged. However, HIS top priority out of high school was baseball and he chose to make the best of the academics in order to follow his dream.

I guess that brings me back to my point. If the kid is allowed to make the college choice based on what's important to him, the odds of his success greatly increase. I've sometimes wondered how he would have done if we had insisted on academics first in the selection. Would he have felt as positive about his experience? Would he have done as well in the classroom? Hard to say.

What I do know is because he made the choice and the commitment, he had an emotional investment in his overall success.

quote:

I guess that brings me back to my point. If the kid is allowed to make the college choice and commitment based on what's important to him, the odds of his success greatly increase.

Thank you for that.

The kid has to do the work on and off the field. At 18 it's time for him to learn to make decisions. He is old enough to decide to go to Iraq with weapon over his shoulder, if he chooses to.

Fungo - I think Gloria and I have had the same technology class!

quote:

If the kid is allowed to make the college choice and commitment based on what's important to him, the odds of his success greatly increase.

that sums it up!!

I hate to beat a dead horse, but for a kid wanting to play college baseball, I can't imagine the "net positives" of 4 yrs of study coupled with 4 yrs of "misery in baseball" - if other choices exist

also an important point to keep in mind regarding academics
(a modified baseball quote)

college is supposed to be hard, if it wasn't hard ANYBODY could do it!!





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Excellent posts by all regarding academics and athletics! That is why the college search process is unique for everyone.

Another question however that I feel has been answered before but I cannot find it. Let's suppose a school has 10 full baseball scholarships (not the 11.7 granted by the NCAA). Are these scholarships based on in-state our out of state tuition or neither?

For example if in-state tuition is $15,000 per year and out of state is $20,000 per year would the school only have $150,000 to work with if they had 10 scholarships or would they have $200,000 to work with based on out of state tuition? Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe the school is just given 10 scholarships in my example and the school administration doesn't care if they are all out of state or in-state players? I realize that all schools do not charge the same for tuition but I am trying to figure out the in-state vs. out of state scenario.

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TxMom...Impressed with your posts...clean concise, little agenda, lots of humanity. Only 100+ posts but I would like to nominate you for "All Star" Status..... keep up the good work...keep raising the bar....



Rounding third...Good question. I'm sure that someone here has a concise answer...

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Rounding third,
Been a while since I researched this but if I recall the in-state and out of state scholarship are both considered one scholarship by the NCAA. I think a college can offer 11.7 full rides to out of state students and be in compliance with the NCAA. State funding may influnce how in-state vs. out-of-state scholarships are awarded within that particular state. I'm sure there are those that can shed more light on this.
Fungo

Roundingthird,
Fungo is right (as usual ), it is a maximum of 11.7 full scholarships. The actual dollar value of in-state vs. out of state scholarship only matters with the school's budget, the NCAA still counts it as "1" against the 11.7 total. There is no NCAA "penalty" because the player is out of state and costs the school more $'s.

For scholarships, a school will chop up full scholarships into small parts, or percentages, to spread the money out. For instance, if it costs $20,000 to attend in-state, one player gets $5,000, another gets $7,000, a third might get $3,000, and the fourth also gets $5,000. That's four players splitting one scholarship. Out of state guys will generally receive more scholarship money to make up for the difference in out of state tuition costs, even though it might be the same percentage scholarship.

Schools have different standards for academic money that can be added onto baseball money. Some schools, many that you see competing for Omaha each and every year, can add money for low ACT scores or lower GPAs. This allows those schools to more easily recruit nationwide and get in out of state players at a much lower cost. For instance, let's say that a prominent southeastern school can offer an additional $5,000 off tuition for a player who scores a 21 on his ACT and an extra $3,000 for having a 3.0 GPA, they are at a distinct advantage over a midwest school whose standards are 25 and 3.5. If it costs $20,000 at the midwest school, and $25,000 at the southeastern school, then the midwest school has to spend more baseball money to get out of state players. Therefore quality of players is not as high at the midwest school because of the need to "fill in" with invited walk-on's and guys who will go to a school for less money or pay more out of pocket tuition.

As a guy who has coached at both the JUCO and DI levels, if a player has the chance to get into a DI school out of high school, I would advise to take the offer. The two big reasons for going the JUCO route should be if the player is not ready academically for a four year school, or if the player is a draft and follow and has been "sent" to a JUCO by an affiliated team. (Which, by the way, will no longer be the case with the new rule change that will not allow "draft and follows".) There is not a whole lot of "getting better" going on at junior colleges, and you will get into the four year school's program and start to fill a role with good instruction. Guys coming from JUCO's trying to go DI have to be ready to step in right away a fill a role. There has to be a lot of trust from the coaching staff that it will happen. I think the trend at the DI level is to "home grow" your own talent.

I was under the impression that any "institution monies", such as academic grants and need-based PRIVATE grants count toward the 11.7................(except HOPE/TAPS)type State programs.

That being considered, say the average cost of attendance at D1 University is $20,000. When you multiply by 11.7, you get a pool of allocable dollars of $234,000.

That can be spread to the roster in the form of athletic grants, academic grants, and need-based blind-based private institutional grants, but capped at $234,000.

NO?

Slugger,

Only when combined with baseball money. The standard is a 26 ACT or lower. If academic money is granted to a player with a 26 ACT or lower, and baseball scholarship money is also awarded, then the acedemic money will count towards the 11.7 most likely depending on the academic scholarship.

The more likely scenario that I was talking about, is if a school can offer a $5,000 academic scholarship for scoring a 22 ACT, but they don't offer "baseball money", that academic money will not be counted against the 11.7. As opposed to another school where a player needs to score a 27 ACT in order to receive $5,000. For the player who scores a 23 ACT, he can go to the first school, get $5,000 off tuition, or go to the second school, and need to get baseball money to match that.