TPM...

Agree with most of this post. Particularly the middle part You have done a very nice job IMO and based upon whats out here in the trenches, of explaining where velocity and development fit into collegiate selection. And of the fact that some may never reach quaklifying velocities for the higher levels of play.

My concern was with the initial view that velocity was irrelevant. It is VERY relevant. As evidenced by the Radar guns.

And as evidenced by the The kids who throw 90+ in the NCAA and stuggle. This is a direct result of coaches lthinking like this..."if he can throw 90+ he qualifies! and I can teach him to pitch." I know of few coaches who think the other way..."well he can pitch but I'll teach him to throw 90"

The player who gets to the NCAA and cannot pitch, or gets hit is a perfect example of the thinking that exists out here. Velocity clouds thinking and is arguably the single most important qualifying factor for high DI.

Give me a kid who knows the craft of pithcing and has velocity and he gets a June/July offer or gets drafted early. Give me a kid over 90 and he is a July scholarship guy. Even if he struggles to throw a range of pitches. I can alwsy teach a kid who can throw 90.....Give me a kid who throws 85 and can get kids out and I'll give you smaller schools and smaller JC's.

Not so sure about trying to throw hard as being a major components of injury...Yes, it may be a factor, but I figured the major casues were likely overuse, lack of training, too much junk too early...

Bee>,
Don't know where your sarcasm is coming from.

You know what I mean, pitcher has to be himself, relaxed and not throw harder (when he is not used to it) because the gun is pointed at him.

If you notice this was the posters FIRST
showcase and asked about what to do. It was my opinion, you don't like it, that's ok, so then state your own reasons why they should pitch to the gun. The first showcase should be a measure of where the player stands within his class, seeing for himself (and parents) what improvements need to be made. For a pitcher it shouldn't be, throw your hardest so you can be a 90+ invite to the next showcase. Because then you get there and your son struggles with it while others are pitching with the greatest of ease. Now your son is going to be ranked among those players.
I hope that you understand my point. Which is, begin a good development program while the player is young, which includes all phases of becoming a good pitcher.

Observer,
The velocity is irrevelant if there's nothing else to go along with it.
Something my son was taught a long time ago, your next pitch could be your last pitch.
Coach's have different philososphies, some are willing to develop, some just want others to be able to get the job done (we have had this discussion before). At that point it becomes the recruits choice.
If the player is ranked a D1, D2, D3 player, he can work on what he needs to to improve to get to where he FITS in, not where he or his folks THINK HE SHOULD fit in.

Bags,
Good luck to son. I am sure that your son learned alot about himself this weekend, mine did too after his first showcse.

TPM, you seem say in a showcase/tryout situation - just show them what you can do well

I add to that - also "LEAVE YOUR COMFORT ZONE" and give them a glimpse of your potential by "letting some fly"

as observer said above - "It (velocity) is VERY relevant. As evidenced by the Radar guns."

regarding injury -
if you're not in shape to throw - - don't show

My take on this is that a pitcher shouldn't be trying to set new velocity records for himself at a showcase. All pitchers should have a speed at which they can locate the fastball, a speed at which they can throw the fastball somewhere around the zone and a speed at which they have little or no control. Pitchers need to learn how to throw at all three of these speeds long before they ever get to a showcase. They then need to throw at the speeds appropriate to the situation, but with idea that there are scouts with guns in mind. If their speeds are 84 location, 87, hard and 89 wild and they get the first two hitters in an inning on 84 mph two seamers they might want to throw that 87 mph pitch to the next hitter just so the scouts can get a reading on the gun. If they get ahead of a hitter early down in the zone they might want to try the 87 mph high heat. If they get ahead 0-2 on a hitter they might want to waste with the 89 mph wild one.

The key is to not try to do something you've never done before at a showcase. By the same token it doesn't make any sense for a pitcher who is successful throwing a 84 mph two seamer and mixing in an 87 mph four seamer every now and then to try to throw all 87 mph four seamers at a showcase. In addition to most likely getting hit hard the scouts are going to know the difference between a pitcher who is pitching and a pitcher who is just throwing for the gun.

CADad...Agree, well put.

When the situation arises take the opportunity given to get one velocity pitch in. It sets the "touched speed" which means to coaches that you have velocity that you are not touching or may grow into. "Touched" speed does matter.

For all who think pitchers need to be throwing at or near 90 to be recruited by D-I schools......when my son attended the Midwest Area Code Tryouts in July 2002 (he was a 2003 grad), his fastball was being clocked at 85-86........the next day he received phone calls from several D-I coaches (from the Big 12, ACC, Big 10, Big East, MAC, Big South, Missouri Valley).

Velocity is only one pice of the puzzle.

"As for Maddux....Listen to any game that Maddux pitchers, the announcers go on and on about how it would be impossible for him to make in todays velocity hungry world. Zito had a heck of time getting taken seriously with an 88-89 MPH fastball."

What hurt Maddux is MLB stated to tighten the strike zone. yet what Maddux and Glavine do now is start tight and slowly start moving out. Those two used to drive me nuts throwing same spot everytime and the Astros were hopeless. Heck, some strikes were so far out that the full extension still couldnt get to the ball LOL

I agree that velocity is cool to watch but I see quite a bit of this so called 90+ action with some serious arm strain due to poor mechanics. The arm will give eventually.

Another point to stir the pot is some of these out of area 90+ throwers who get some great show case exposure, but they do not get the crunch time exposure. I have seen some amazing velocity picters get drilled in Texas. The fastball is great but if you don't place it with consisentcy and have a solid 2nd pitch your toast down here. I have seen low velocity 75-80mph mixed speed pitcher give batters complete fits and when they bring in the 89-91 fastball closer its like the batters smile and say "Thank you, God"

My 2 cents

well put CaDad,that's what I was attempting to convey - -
and as Grateful reminds mid 80's is still pretty awsome & will garner some good attention as well - - even tho any player(s) invited to AC tryouts have already turned some scouts heads

another thing to consider is that the 5'-10" rhp will have to show better than a 6'-3" rhp to come out even

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
another thing to consider is that the 5'-10" rhp will have to show better than a 6'-3" rhp to come out even

That I can agree upon.

BEE

I dont know about "the way to go" but I can tell you what we do

WE DO NOT THROW IN THE BULLPEN WITH GUNS FLASHING ALL AROUND BEHIND THE CATCHER !

We have our pitchers throw in the games and we "gun" them there

In the bullpen I truly believe the kids overthrow just to achieve high gun readings-- they are not pitching

I would just like to add to this post that with an 06 also going through the showcase/recruiting process, the more I seem to learn, the more confused I get.

.

domimick....Completely understandable....ask some specific questions on this site and at the very least you will get a variety of opinions - and in those the opinions the information you'll need to succeed. There are some very intelligent and very "recruiting experienced" people here who understand and have successfully negotiated the process and are more than happy to help unconfuse you.

Keep asking questions....

..

Again we are on the velocity thing--- if a pitcher only has heat, but no change or offspeed stuff and has no location or ball movement he is "Dead Meat"

I am the Dad of a Division I "hitter" and his eyes always lit up when he saw a 95 MPH fastball and the pitcher had nothing else--

You nned to be able to PITCH regardless of how much "heat" you may or may not have

That's a great point TR. Heat plus little movement or change of speed equals power. The power of the ball sailing over the fence from the 95mph fastball.

make sure when you get on the mound your arm is very loose and you are in a very relaxed mental state. scouts look to see how well you throw (velocity, movement, accuracy, mechanics) but they also look to see if you are confident and they look to see how you act and carry yourself (they dont want john rockers)
also, it would be good to get a haircut (if you have long hair) and to shave before you go because scouts have told me that those are signs of self discipline

okay, i understand the whole thing about a qualifying velocity. but is it any different for lefties, and what should it be for them?

quote:

okay, i understand the whole thing about a qualifying velocity. but is it any different for lefties, and what should it be for them?

I think due to the fact lefties are 5-10% in the population makes them in a special class themselves. I think any lefty with 89-91 mph fastball with good placement and good second pitch will get alot of attention.

My two cents

quote:

Originally posted by penja:

quote:

okay, i understand the whole thing about a qualifying velocity. but is it any different for lefties, and what should it be for them?

I think due to the fact lefties are 5-10% in the population makes them in a special class themselves. I think any lefty with 89-91 mph fastball with good placement and good second pitch will get alot of attention.

My two cents

That kind of lefty can perhaps be drafted in the top five rounds!

Agreed..In my experience for DI...A lefty who can pitch well, and hits 85-86 will. Righties generally have to have craft and hit 88. Unless they have another exception atribute. DII's may be different.

TRhit you have a PM