I honesty think that D-1 baseball compare fairly to short season baseball with a light advantage for pro baseball over college. The ideal situation for me is to get a scholarship at a D-1 school, play 3 or four years, and them to sign professional. To sign for professional baseball means 1 to 5 % of chance to become a ML baseball player. Going to school means 90% opportunity of become a professional person, and still the 1-5 % chance of become a ML baseball player.
Well said, Racab.
It is normal to be curious about D1 compared to minor league.
I wondered the same thing myself, outloud, on this board many years ago.
With some effort on his part, bbscout convinced me otherwise.
The players that start at D1 were usually standout allstars at their high school.
Until you have actually seen that process take place, it doesn't really hit home.
Starters at a D1 were probably the four hole hitter or leading hitter on their high school team.
The same process happens again at the D1.
But, instead of 1 player from the high school team to a D1, there might be three or four drafted into professional baseball.
So, those minor league teams are comprised of the best of the D1's.
Given that a short season team made up of the best players from the D1's, it should not be hard to comprehend that the minor league team is stronger.
Only the best pitchers and hitters survive..............
Posts: 3129 | Location: Texas | Registered: December 27, 2002
This topic reminds me of when the great Gretz signed his Pro contract in hockey. Everyone thought he would get killed. Look at Lebron, and crosby. Really not as big a step as people think.
Posts: 4187 | Location: Canada | Registered: October 13, 2005
BHD, Just want to make sure we are still on topic and comparing college and professional baseball??? Look at all those high schoolers since Joe Nuxhall who stepped right in and became stars in MLB. What was his name...David Clyde??? Let's just say, that based on your experience and my experience, we will agree to disagree. I will rely on my son and his teammates and my own eyes and stand firm in the position that it is at least as big a step as many people think, and much bigger than some think.
'You don't have to be a great player to play in the major leagues, you've got to be a good one every day.'
Posts: 2053 | Location: ca | Registered: February 11, 2003
I will rely on my son and his teammates and my own eyes and stand firm in the position that it is at least as big a step as many people think, and much bigger than some think.
DITTO!
Posts: 4813 | Location: Spring Creek (Jackson),Tennessee | Registered: December 26, 2002
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll: This topic reminds me of when the great Gretz signed his Pro contract in hockey. Everyone thought he would get killed. Look at Lebron, and crosby. Really not as big a step as people think.
For every Gretsky and Feller and Lebron - there are thousands of guys that couldnt make the "next step" - year after year after year. In most cases - not even close to the next step.
Comparing amateurs, hitting with aluminum rocket launchers, to Professionals - hitting with wood - even at the A level - is kinda silly IMO.
You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. ~Jim Bouton, Ball Four, 1970
Posts: 5809 | Location: Huntersville,NC | Registered: December 27, 2002
I am sorry, look like I missunderstood the point. I am not comparing college players to professionals, I am comparing players that signed from HS at 18 years old, and "just drafted" players from college that are playing SS baseball VS Some Juniors and seniors from D-1 baseball. Most of the players playing at SS baseball were playing college 2 weeks before the draft, and some HS players still struggling at SS 3 years after signning.
Faith is to believe what you don't see; The reward of this faith is to see what you believe.
quote: I will rely on my son and his teammates and my own eyes and stand firm in the position that it is at least as big a step as many people think, and much bigger than some think.
DITTO!
DITTO to your DITTO!
______________ "If you can read this, thank a teacher, and since it's in English, thank a soldier !!"
Posts: 1693 | Location: Pueblo,CO,USA | Registered: December 27, 2002
quote: I will rely on my son and his teammates and my own eyes and stand firm in the position that it is at least as big a step as many people think, and much bigger than some think.
DITTO!
DITTO to your DITTO!
I'll see your DITTO!! and raise you two DITTOS!!
I am not saying excelling or contributing at the collegiate level is not difficult, thrilling or rewarding on a personal level for the player or his family. It is, very much so. Maybe 8-10% of college d1 players turn professional each year. Last time I checked, 100% of players in short season or rookie leagues were professional players. I don't think Major League Baseball drafts the middle 10% either. Do the math, as they say.
Posts: 4795 | Location: Florida | Registered: December 26, 2002
Here's a nice article about transition from juco to D1 and the "adjustment"
Byrns making smooth transition from junior college to Division I by george watson | AVALANCHE-JOURNAL
Past rosters of the Texas Tech baseball program are lined with junior college players who failed to make the adjustment to Division I baseball. They're also full of players who not only made the adjustment but flourished.
Junior outfielder Geoff Byrns appears, at least early in the 2007 season, to be moving toward the latter. By doing so, he's providing even more potential to a Tech lineup already laced with power hitters.
"I've just been looking forward to this season as a learning experience for me," said Byrns, who transferred to Tech from Chabot (Calif.) Junior College. "My job is to get on base and expand the lineup and create some frustration for the pitchers, and be just one more tough (at-bat)." And perhaps one of the most impressive aspects of Byrns' adjustment is that he's also having to get used to a new position. He played first base at Chabot, where as a sophomore he hit 17 home runs and drove in 72 runs, earning him the All-Coast Conference Player of the Year and Northern California Player of the Year honors as well as the Rawlings "Big Stick" award.
Only seven games into the season, junior college transfer Geoff Byrns is one of the most potent hitters in the Texas Tech Lineup.
But with sophomore James Leverton established at first and sophomore all-American Roger Kieschnick moving from left field to right, the coaching staff decided to give him a shot at left, and he adjusted well enough to earn the start on opening day.
Those junior college numbers, however, didn't distinguish him from hundreds of other junior college transfers who put up big numbers only to come to Tech and struggle in Division I baseball.
His play on the field, however, has. Heading into this weekend's Midland College Classic, Byrns is the only Red Raider to hit safely in all seven games this season, and he is currently second on the team with a .393 batting average. During the four games of the Red Raider Classic last weekend, he hit .467 (7-for-15).
With those kind of numbers, he could fall into a third category - players who put up good numbers as juniors and left for the major leagues after just one season.
"So far, he's done OK," Tech head coach Larry Hays said. "It's a little adjustment period and some handle it better than others. You look at a guy like Joe Dillon who came here and hit six home runs his first year and 33 the next, so there is an adjustment there. The upside to junior college kids is they're older and they've been knocked around enough to where it's easier for them to adjust. But you may only have them for one year, so that's the downside."
Right now, however, Byrns is having too much fun. He credits this past summer's experience in the Alaska League with the Alaska Goldpanners, as well as the increase in level of coaching between junior college and Division I, as two reasons his adjustment has been, to this point, fairly pain-free.
"Only a handful of junior college guys were up there and the guys we saw were from Arizona State, Stanford and Nebraska," Byrns said of the Alaska League. "That really prepared me for this season and just built my confidence up a little bit knowing I could play with these guys. The main reason you go to Division I is the good coaching and we get a little bit better coaching up here, and that's prepared me to play in the outfield before."
And as long as he keeps going, he'll definitely end up on the list of more memorable players to wear the scarlet and black. To comment on this story: george.watson@lubbockonline.com 766-2166 patrick.gonzales@lubbockonline.com 766-8735
Posts: 3129 | Location: Texas | Registered: December 27, 2002
This is like comparing apples to oranges because of the bats. Why not use the wood bat summer college leagues like the Cape Cod league, which is made up of the best college players and compare it with the minor leagues.
Posts: 1176 | Location: NJ | Registered: December 30, 2002
I too am of the opinion that the pro level, any pro level is better than any college level.
I’ll even go with the percentages regarding college players who will turn pro in any given year. However there are some college teams that will produce a good number of pro players. It’s just that the soph and Fresh class is not eligible to sign with a pro club.
There are college teams who will have a couple or more players each year. Take this times the four classes and a top level college team actually can have 8 to 12 future pro players. The short season team will have 25 or more pro players all in there first year and some will be top high school draft picks.
So the above reasonable (I think) numbers… show that the pro team is much deeper, but it also shows that in a given game, the college team can put 9 guys on the field who will be pro players. Then it depends on who the college players are. For example… Vanderbilt this year has two players that are thought to be possible first pick of the next two drafts. There is NO pro team that is likely to have that on a short season team. Last year North Carolina had a guy who was in the major leagues the same year he pitched in college. So I guess one would have to say, he had a chance to beat a short season team that same year. The difference is… Andrew Miller couldn’t pitch every game of a series. But then again North Carolina had another first rounder on their staff.
Anyway, those who claim pro ball is better… I agree completely. Those who say the top D1 Colleges would not be able to compete in a short series… I disagree completely.
A first rounder is a first rounder! Some of them come out of the top DI programs every year. While some DI players will not play pro ball, they still play the game well enough to compete in any given game. First rounders coming out of small college or high school do not have the supporting cast to do the same thing unless they have a pitcher who is dominate (a first round pitcher). The pitcher is the one guy that can equalize everything.
IMO One game/short series... could be very competitive
Full season... Pro level would dominate!
Yes... It's a big step up for most anyone!
Some college players will skip the lowest level.
The best pitchers coming out of college or high school often dominate the lower levels of pro ball
Posts: 4849 | Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa | Registered: December 27, 2002
PG, Ya know, common sense has messed up plenty of good arguments.
Another way to look at it would be to ask oneself how effective Verlander would have been against short season A players during his last season in college.
Taking his 2003 season as being more representative he had a 7-6 record and a 2.40 ERA at Old Dominion. In his first season of pro ball he was 9-2 with a 1.67 ERA at the advanced A level then dominated AA even more before being promoted to the bigs.
Obviously he's an exceptional talent but it makes the point that the best don't always turn pro right after HS or play at the lower levels of pro ball out of college.
Generally speaking the best players out of our HS league go to college rather than turning pro out of HS although a few, not necessarily the most talented, do sign out of HS and our league produces some of the most talented players anywhere.
It might surprise some that the player who was probably the most talented in the league, Robert Stock, (went to college) was not the ace on his HS team and that he hit only about half the home runs that the league's leader, also a junior last season did. The ace went to college.
Posts: 4703 | Location: Southern CA, USA | Registered: January 02, 2003
Huskies play Boston Red Sox today The baseball team faces the Boston Red Sox today at 1 p.m. at City of Palms Park in Ft. Myers, Florida. The Huskies will start junior Kris Dabrowiecki against 2003 World Series MVP Josh Beckett. It is the fifth time the Huskies have played the Red Sox in an exhibition game and the fourth time in spring training. Last season, the Huskies scored a pair of runs off the Red Sox, including a Chris Emanuele homer off Matt Clement.
Northeastern plays Red Sox today. The results should be interesting. Starting pitcher is from my area.
Posts: 4187 | Location: Canada | Registered: October 13, 2005
Boston Red Sox 11, Huskies 0 March 1, 2007 City of Palms Park (Ft. Myers, FL)
The Northeastern University pitching staff no-hit the Boston Red Sox through three innings and David Gustafson and James Donaldson got hits in the game, but the Huskies eventually lost, 11-0, to the Boston Red Sox on Thursday in an exhibition game at City of Palms Park in Fort Myers, Fla.
Gustafson, a redshirt freshman, hit a line-drive single to right center field on the first pitch of the game from 2003 World Series MVP Josh Beckett. Gustafson walked in his only other plate appearance and was the only player on the Huskies to reach base multiple times. Donaldson had the only other hit for the Huskies, smacking a line drive to right field to lead off the third inning against Craig Breslow.
The Husky pitching staff got off to an impressive start in the game. Junior Kris Dabrowiecki, sophomore Trevor Smith and junior Bobby Carrington combined for three shut-out, no-hit innings to begin the game. The Husky hurlers held the Red Sox hitless for three-and-two-thirds innings before Alex Ochoa doubled down the line off Charly Bashara.
Dabrowiecki started the game for the Huskies and pitched two-thirds of an inning, allowing no hits. He struck out J.D. Drew and then was relieved by Smith, who promptly struck out Mike Lowell. Smith retired all four batters that he faced and struck out a pair. Carrington followed Smith and also recorded a strikeout.
Non-roster invitee Scott White broke the game open for the Red Sox with a grand slam in the bottom of the sixth inning.
The Huskies are back in action to start their regular season on Saturday with a doubleheader vs. Indiana-Purdue at IMG Academies in Bradelton, Fla. The first game begins at 11:30 a.m.
• Box score (mlb.com)
Posts: 4187 | Location: Canada | Registered: October 13, 2005
Didnt Miami beat the Florida Marlins a few years back?
I would say that any college team with a number 1 overall type pitcher, (price, miller, etc) would have a chance at beating any minor league team. However, position for position the any high A team is gonna be better than any college team no matter what.
Posts: 150 | Location: AMERICA | Registered: May 08, 2005
I would say that any college team with a number 1 overall type pitcher, (price, miller, etc) would have a chance at beating any minor league team
Respectfully disagree with you on this one. I do believe that a quality college pitcher and team could beat some of the lower level minor league teams ... rookie (many high school age players), short season (many college level players), and maybe even some low A teams where there are a lot of young players. But beyond that, I really don't think a college program with even the best pitcher is quite ready to beat 'any' minor league team. We have to remember that the minor league levels, especially AA and AAA, are stacked with very mature players, some in their late 20's as well as younger players who have been playing pro ball since they were 16 or 17 (speaking here of the Latin players).
Mr FB.M and I were just discussing this Sat over dinner while watching a super regional and despite how good these college teams are, how good their pitching is, the level of competition at high A, AA, and AAA is considerably higher than the best college baseball ... IMHO. The speed of the game, the savvy of the players, the plate discipline, the pitchers' physical maturity, etc., takes a giant leap at the higher levels of pro ball ... kind of like fielding a freshman high school team against a varsity team made up of only top senior players. The physical and mental maturity means a lot.
Again, JMHO FWIW
Mary Ann * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "The Lord Himself goes before you and will be with you; He will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged." Deuteronomy 31:8 [8/21/08]
Posts: 3937 | Location: Somewhere out there beneath the pale moonlight ... | Registered: January 02, 2003
