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HSBBWeb Old Timer
Picture of FormerObserver
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me too, Bee.
 
Posts: 3118 | Location: Texas | Registered: December 27, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
Picture of CADad
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Cunningham, Deckert and Claggert were on that team and drafted in '05. Don't know if any others who were on that team signed as free agents in '05. Also don't know if any of them were JC transfers who didn't play during AJ's junior season. Most likely another player or 2 who was a freshman during AJ's junior season will be drafted and signed this year. I'm a bit surprised that more didn't get drafted but maybe it was AJ's sophmore season that UCR had their strong season.

Then again you can compare that with CSF who had 14 drafted last year. More typical is 6 or 7 each year for a strong D1 team meaning that of the players on a strong D1 team each year 15 to 20 of them will end up drafted or playing pro ball.
 
Posts: 4703 | Location: Southern CA, USA | Registered: January 02, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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If you take the drafted players from a D1 team and have them go out into pro ball and join forces with other drafted players, you now have a short season team. Do you think the kids (5-6) who are Freshmen and Sophs at one D1 college along with their teammates who will never be drafted can compete with the team of 30 drafted players who have already proved themselves in college and are now a team in pro ball?

One team is loaded up with 21-23 year old drafted college players, about 6-7 top Dominican players and 3-4 of the best high school prospects. The other team has about 5-6 guys who "might" get drafted along with 25 others who will not ever play pro ball.
 
Posts: 3823 | Location: Ca. | Registered: December 26, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Do I think that the top 15 to 20 players on a top D1 including those who don't have the tools to make the big leagues but may be better players for now are as good as the the top 15 to 20 players from a short season A team? Yes, especially the pitching where pitchers who are better pitchers now may not be drafted because they don't have enough of an upside.

Do I think there's more depth on the A team? Yes.

Do I think there is more talent on the A team which many people here have noted?
Yes, but talent alone doesn't get the job done. (I'd make a crack about the Yankees here but I really don't think they had the talent. Pitching is what wins playoffs almost every time.)

Do I think the college team will play as a team while the A team will play as a bunch of individuals?
Yes.

Where do you get 5 or 6 who might get drafted? The average each year for the top 25 D1 teams is over 6 players meaning that 15 to 20 will get drafted or signed at the end of their college careers including a select few who will skip short season A and go to A ball or even in extremely rare cases AA ball.
 
Posts: 4703 | Location: Southern CA, USA | Registered: January 02, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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quote:
by bbscout: One team is loaded up with 21-23 year old drafted college players, about 6-7 top Dominican players and 3-4 of the best high school prospects.


scout, I DO see your point, however as CAdad has some non-pro prospects (by your description) in his line-up

quote:
by Chill: I do not agree that all minor league players are prospects, however

taking Chill's baseball experience into account

when do the "pro fillers/non prospects" get into your line-up?

Confused


.
 
Posts: 3616 | Location: NE Ohio | Registered: December 27, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
Picture of CADad
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The other team has 15 to 20 players who will be drafted or signed on average. Most of them would be drafted or signed immediately if eligible.
 
Posts: 4703 | Location: Southern CA, USA | Registered: January 02, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
Picture of CADad
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I think we've beaten this to death and while my opinions haven't changed I think bbscout, and others have brought up some very good points.

Thanks for the discussion.

As soon as one of us wins the mega-lottery they'll have to buy a short season A team and find a way (almost as unlikely as winning the lottery) to have them play against some D1 teams. Smile
 
Posts: 4703 | Location: Southern CA, USA | Registered: January 02, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
The other team has 15 to 20 players who will be drafted or signed on average. Most of them would be drafted or signed immediately if eligible.


In the past 10 years, UC Riverside, which has a real good program has had 21 players drafted....total. Saying that the other team has 15-20 players that will be drafted is a big stretch for most schools.
 
Posts: 3823 | Location: Ca. | Registered: December 26, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
Picture of bbscout
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quote:
Originally posted by Bee>:
quote:
by bbscout: One team is loaded up with 21-23 year old drafted college players, about 6-7 top Dominican players and 3-4 of the best high school prospects.


scout, I DO see your point, however as CAdad has some non-pro prospects (by your description) in his line-up
------------------------------------------------
Not my description, just facts.



quote:
by Chill: I do not agree that all minor league players are prospects, however

taking Chill's baseball experience into account

when do the "pro fillers/non prospects" get into your line-up?
------------------------------------------------
All players that never reach the big leagues are in reality, fillers. All players that get signed will be in the lineup at the Mgrs. discretion. As Chill mentioned, all players in pro ball are not MLB prospects. All players in college lineups are not good college players either.

Confused


.
 
Posts: 3823 | Location: Ca. | Registered: December 26, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
Picture of bbscout
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quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
Do I think that the top 15 to 20 players on a top D1 including those who don't have the tools to make the big leagues but may be better players for now are as good as the the top 15 to 20 players from a short season A team? Yes, especially the pitching where pitchers who are better pitchers now may not be drafted because they don't have enough of an upside.

Do I think there's more depth on the A team? Yes.

Do I think there is more talent on the A team which many people here have noted?
Yes, but talent alone doesn't get the job done. (I'd make a crack about the Yankees here but I really don't think they had the talent. Pitching is what wins playoffs almost every time.)

Do I think the college team will play as a team while the A team will play as a bunch of individuals?
Yes.

Where do you get 5 or 6 who might get drafted? The average each year for the top 25 D1 teams is over 6 players meaning that 15 to 20 will get drafted or signed at the end of their college careers including a select few who will skip short season A and go to A ball or even in extremely rare cases AA ball.


If you consider 3 a few, then you must think that out of the top 25 College teams that 75 players will go directly to full season "A" ball or higher when they are drafted. "NOT"

I played pro ball, and we played as a team every season. I think your statement about a college team playing more as a team than a pro team is based on inexperience on your part.

You are right about one thing, and that is that the pro team has more talent. The pro teams for the most part have better coaching too.
 
Posts: 3823 | Location: Ca. | Registered: December 26, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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The top 25 in D1 last year had over 6 players drafted per team. Riverside is a good team but not a perennial top 50 team. One year I believe they were in or close to the top 25. Last year only two or three teams out of the top 25 had as few as 3 players drafted. On the other hand 1 team had 14 players drafted, 3 had 9 drafted and 2 had 8 drafted. That is what I was referring to when I said I was surprised that Riverside had that few drafted.

Please quit trying to put words in my keyboard. How can you interpret "a select few" as being almost half? A bit over 150 players were drafted from the top 25 D1 teams last year. I'd be surprised if even 10 of the 150+ drafted from the top 25 D1s went straight to full season A or higher.

How much turnover is there in the coaching in short season A ball? Where do they send the guys with playing experience but no coaching experience who may or may not be decent coaches? I'd agree that for the most part pro teams have better coaching than college teams but I wouldn't extend that to short season teams. We've had a lot of guys who have coached at various levels of pro ball around here and we've got a lot of college coaches around here and other than Scioscia and George Anderson none of the pro coaches stand out a whole lot.
 
Posts: 4703 | Location: Southern CA, USA | Registered: January 02, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Since you have admitted that you have not seen Short Season ball, what is it that you know about the coaching at that level? Is it a guess? How many D1 games did you see last year? What are the strong points of the D1 coaches that you did see? In what ways are the players more team oriented in College as opposed to Pro ball? oops, you can't answer that because you never see the short season pro ball games.
 
Posts: 3823 | Location: Ca. | Registered: December 26, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Not hard to answer. Players who play for a college expect to stay there for a few years although it doesn't always happen that way. Players on a minor league team are doing everything they can to get off the team.

BTW, I notice you didn't answer any of my questions about the coaching?

I don't know the D1 coaches personally but I do know a pretty good D3 coach or two and I've seen at least one local HS coach in action that I'd take over most short season A coaches sight unseen. Heck, it isn't unusual for the pitching coaches in our HS league to have either pitched in the big leagues or to have been a pitching coach in the big leagues so I find it hard to believe the quality is much less at D1 schools and I don't know how the quality is going to be a whole lot better in short season A. Are most of the coaches in short season A better than Jerry W.?

It wouldn't surprise me if you stopped by to see a game or two considering some of the players we've got in the league and if so I'll just walk over from the freshman field and we can discuss this kind of thing in person where you can tell when someone is kidding and people don't get so worked up about opinions and I'll spend my time listening and learning instead of arguing.

In any case let's end this thread because we're just arguing now and trying to poke holes in each other's arguments rather than doing anything constructive.
 
Posts: 4703 | Location: Southern CA, USA | Registered: January 02, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Sight unseen?? Did you pick out a hitting coach for your son sight unseen? Did you marry your wife sight unseen? I sure hope not.

I won't be scouting teams in your league, as they are not in my scouting area.
 
Posts: 3823 | Location: Ca. | Registered: December 26, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
Picture of PAmom
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CADad---

I have no vested interest in this thread -- just perusing the posts. May I suggest you put some duct tape over that foot in your mouth so that you can't dig yourself in deeper than you already have? Your "sight unseen" comments are long past ridiculous. Thanks for the chuckle, though!


Is this heaven?...
 
Posts: 2177 | Location: Western PA | Registered: January 01, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Git yur chair PantherDad.
 
Posts: 3118 | Location: Texas | Registered: December 27, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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I dont think you can compare managing a minor league team and managing a college team. A minor league team wants to win but its about development.
 
Posts: 1176 | Location: NJ | Registered: December 30, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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If a player is playing to the best of his ability, is he team oriented or playing as a individual ? How are they different?
 
Posts: 1176 | Location: NJ | Registered: December 30, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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njbb, That young man of yours is a team player who has talent, and he is also a fine individual.
 
Posts: 3823 | Location: Ca. | Registered: December 26, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Nice job of twisting my words again. I said I'd take a certain HS coach over other coaches sight unseen. I've seen the HS coach work with kids as we've played against his team multiple times and I've seen his results with his HS team which include back to back national championships. I really don't have to see anyone else to know that this is a very good coach. I've also seen how the coaches with extensive big league experience do when they come into our HS league and it isn't always a pretty sight so I'd rather leave some of those short season A coaches sight unseen. I don't have to go watch every short season A coach to know that some of them are going to be very good, some are going to stink and most are going to be somewhere in between.

And yes of course I selected a hitting and pitching instructor for my son who I had seen and whose qualifications I had checked over other coaches who I hadn't seen. That is what we all do. That is what I said not what you tried to twist my words to say. I think one of the other poster put it pretty well when he said that you seem to expect everybody to stop posting and applaud whenever you take the time to post something. I guess I shouldn't be surprised as it is obvious that certain posters are more than willing to throw in insults on your behalf without taking the time to understand what was written.
 
Posts: 4703 | Location: Southern CA, USA | Registered: January 02, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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