quote:

by C2709: Do you think the coaching staffs and schools of the 8 teams going to the College World Series don't have some sort of no drinking policy?

I don't know where/how you got that into your head ... from my experience during 4 DI seasons, & 4 post seasons w/Omaha ... No, I don't think they do

tobacco? you mean like the coach from an un-named rival in Fla's panhandle w/the wad in his cheek on tv?

in another topic here some pretty reliable sources decribed the harsh warnings they recieved from their staff regarding steroids - - followed up by a house location, ph # and contact name ...
so they'd be sure to avoid it?

quote:

by C2709: As Bee has stated what if a guy goes to Pizza Hut to eat some wings, watch the NCAA tournament and drink a pitcher - he better hope I don't walk in on him because we would be in season.

that's a heck of a season if you're still playing during NBA or NCAA finals

...if you hit .400 you can drink all you want.

I never mentioned the NBA finals - only NCAA finals (tournament) which happens in March. You know March Madness? When do you think college baseball season is played?

Also, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I could care less what you think. I am going to do what I think is right and go from there.

I am now finished posting here because everyone involved is too stuck in what they believe.

quote:

2709 says: LAST YEAR WAS HIS FIRST AND HE IS RELEASING ABOUT HALF THE ROSTER BECAUSE OF DRUG AND ALCOHOL PROBLEMS ... I am going to do what I think is right and go from there.

"what is right" is keeping confidential info confidential


hmm, the new assistant posting drug & alcohol accusations regarding his players on a public message board ... I don't believe I've ever seen that before


ya may want to study up on the school's privacy policies, because the HC may have some explaining to do for publicly releasing medical/discipline file info thru you on his players

I know I said I wouldn't post anymore but I have to say Bee that you are an idiot. In none of my posts have I mentioned who I am, where I want to coach at nor the school I am interested in. I really don't see how anybody can identify who I am talking about since the HC never told me which players were dismissed for their problems.

Also, how can it be confidential when ESPN puts everything on their news reports? Pro and college players problems are on the news all the time.

I am glad you have a wealth of knowledge in the world of college coaching when you have PROBABLY never coached at that level - if you have then I apologize for assuming wrong.

If you and walawalla want to allow drinking then go ahead and do it. I don't care because that would be your team. This thread was about what to do on drinking on an official visit and I posted my views.

people skills and integrity are pretty important for those in coaching roles.

since you HAD clearly identified your potential employer I (tactfuly) noted in a recent PM my concern that you had compromised team/school privacy and deleted my previous "quote" reference to it, suggesting you do the same (page 8). it went unheeded

due to your employment offer & access to inside info w/HC it's likely that any who read your diatribe would conclude that ALL players released from that team have serious substance abuse issues.

I do have a problem with you laying it out as fact in public as I'm sure would the players, parents, and the school.

it's likely that some close to that program are now following your comments with interest
I gotta wonder how they'd come across to an AD preparing to interview ya, or to players and potential recruits


I will be pulling for the guys on that team hoping that things work out for them ...

they deserve some quality adults as mentors and role models



btw, in re-reading my posts, none indicate an endorsement of underage drinking
but do endorse the use of "horse sense", a seemingly rare commodity

Have been reading this thread with some interest. Coach2709 has rules that he would enforce concerning drinking alcohol during official visits and during the season.

From what I'm reading in these last couple of pages it is assumed that college players drink(legally and illegaly) so therefore the coach should just look the other way?

Should there be no rules regarding drinking? If there should be rules, should they be enforced? Do you have some rules that are enforced and some that aren't? Or do you just
make rules so that in case a lawsuit comes up after one of your underage players gets injured in a drunk driving accident that you, as a coach, are held harmless?

Please elaborate. I'm sure there are more than a few of us that are interested.

Look, we are not naive to the fact that college kids drink, that's not the question. They also do drugs, steal, cheat on tests, etc. Do we look the other way? Should the
South Carolina players that were caught stealing have been kicked off the team? Lots
of college kids steal. Doesn't make it right does it?

It's a tough call about alcohol when some players are over 21 and some under and drinking
is so prevalent at most college social functions. However, this thread started about official visits and I don't know of any recruits that are 21 years old. I would think that a coach would be very dilligent about who he chooses to escort his potential future
ballplayers on the visits.

quote:

I cant imagine there being a competitive D1 baseball team where nobody on the team used alcohol, tobacco, or even drugs.

If you want to run 9 choir boys out there you might go 0-56.

Walawala:........

quote:

You want to be a personable guy who can be a friend and a mentor, not a disciplinarian.

Hmmmm,...to me a friend and a mentor are people who look out for my best interest and support me.

They are also the ones who I expect to kick me in the butt if I'm making stupid choices and partaking in illegal activity.

Turning a blind eye doesnt show me committment or integrity.
Involvement does.

Associates are a dime a dozen.
A good coach and a best friend,.... priceless.

If Bee> is an idiot than I must be one too.

Schools have rules in place to protect the student. Do you know that if a player tests positive for drugs it does not have to be disclosed to the coach? And surprisingly enough, most schools have a first forgiveness policy and a second and some a third? I can tell you that because one of my son's friends tested positive (not at his school) and school policy is no dismissal on first offense. HC wasn't happy, but he was never asked to leave, he left on his own.

Bee's son and mine were from teams that went to Omaha last year, and I don't think coaches have rules regarding such. I also don't think the schools going this year do either. In fact, when you get to Omaha, the NCAA sits with each team to go over rules, and I don't think that legal age players are NOT allowed ot drink. Gambling on teams is discussed and the casino across the river and that is a big concern, don't show up in a casino if you are underage. Besides, most players who get there really don't need coaches to enforce any rules, they are much smarter than that, that is why they are there. and most likely their coach has treated them with respect and they give that back in return.

In fact if most coaches had those type of rules (you drink or smoke during season and you get kicked off the team)many teams would not be able to field a team for a game. Many college players are 21 or over, considered legal and adults, you cannot make them conform to what the law allows. You can make them understand consequences as to the big picture.

This thread was regarding drinking on official visits and since minors go on official visits, they should not be drinking. In fact, I remember my son getting a set of rules before each official visit stating that the recruit shall not partake in drinking alcohol. Do recruits still do it, you betcha they do.


I think Walawala has made some good points, by the way Walawala I am much older than you and I agree with msot everything you have said. Coach SHOULD should listen to what you have posted.

Coach,
I realize the point you are trying to make. But you need to chill out.
Most coaches are wise men, most have been to college themselves. The whole idea is not setting up rules that can't be enforced, but teaching about life's consequences, for example, if you drink and are under age you can get in big trouble, if you drink and drive you can go to jail. College coaches rules most often are pertinent to baseball, be on time for practice, do your workouts, be a good team member, keep curfew, etc.and pertinent to being able to stay eligible (go to class, etc). Hardly ever will a coach interfere with a players life off the field. If a player's off the field life is affecting his performance on the field that is a different situation. I know my son's HC expects that if anything goes down, he wants to hear it from the player first, not in the news, that's where he sets his consequences.
If a team is out of control, and not performing and the coach doesn't do anything about it, that means he should be dismissed, not the players.

I am not sure I would want to send my son off to a place where the institution itself has no policy. I am assuming there are small schools that do, but I am not sure I would even want to work at one of those myself. No rules for students, no rules for staff.

Most college coaches stay out of the players everyday lives and the places they go to. If a coach walks into a place where students are having pizza and beer, most likely he (coach) doesn't belong there in the first place. In Clemson students head downtown for a night out, you will NEVER find a coach there, spys maybe, but never the coach.
JMO

Lots of mixed signals here.
I like strict rules and if you are going to take scholarship money for a sport the rules should be clear and no tolerance.

I never said there should be no consequences. I just said that dismissal from the team is too harsh.

By the way great post Tiger Paw Mom. I think you expressed my feelings even better than I could.

And also shortstopmom, Friends don't kick friends to the curb when they make a bad descision. And drinking responsibly when of legal age is not a bad descision anyways.

very well said tpm, I agree

quote:

by bhdoll: rules should be clear and no tolerance.

well, that's where that "horse sense" comes in handy ...

"no tolerance" scenarios are basicly a lazy man's way of using a predetermined solution to solve a variety of issues without doing any real thinking -

ie: the solution must be harsh enough to cover the most severe violation, yet it must also be applied to an inadvertant or minimum violation -

that's why ya see pin-heads metting out the same punishment to the girl with advil as they do to the guy selling meth out'a his locker.

personaly, I have NO TOLERANCE for "no tolerance"

Bee>,
We don't always agree, but you are right, this is where "horse sense" comes in handy.

I don't know how it is on other teams, but at son's school I always got the feeling that the coach placed the younger players in the hands of the older guys to lead them in the right direction. They more or less policed themselves and if things got out of control, they did what they had to do among themselves.

You don't need strict rules if everyone is working with respect towards the same goal, success for the program.

quote:

I never said there should be no consequences. I just said that dismissal from the team is too harsh.

Walawala, if dismissal from the team is too harsh, and you agree that there should be consequences, what do you propose would be ideal consequences?

Because you are a D1 player, I think it would be beneficial to hear your suggestions.


And on a lighter note:

quote:

Friends don't kick friends to the curb when they make a bad descision.

True,...but I do expect my friends to gently escort ( or perhaps even carry ) my rump to the curb, ( preferably a curb in front of a Starbucks ), leave me a blanket, and visit me on holidays-HA!

SSMom,
Coaches are hired and paid to coach a team and to mentor their charges. They set limits within their program, regarding what they expect from the players they have given opportunities. That's a hard question to expect an answer.

Schools and their administration set rules and consequences in place when a student (any student) is in violation of those rules on or off campus.

Any parent sending their player off to college will be surprised to find out that coaches are generally not disciplinarians in these "illegal" activities. Their decision to drop a player cannot be to their sole discretion, I would imagine the AD would have more say in these matters. These matters would include, stealing, fighting, DUI's, and caught using illegal substances. No AD is going to let a caoch let a player go because the coach saw him drinking in a pizza hut or caught him using tobacco. I am speaking aoubt most school in general, not the situation Caoch is speaking about.

Again, it is highly unlikely a coach will set such rules for no drinking tolerance for his team when more than half are of legal age. Now if that legal age player is caught drinking downtown after midnight when the coaches rules are 10:30 curfew, there might be h*ll to pay in the morning for breaking curfew. And most "legal" or "non legal" players who are responsible know not to get wasted the night before a game.

Thanks TPM.

While I am aware of what you have said, and have experienced most of it first hand, having been a college athlete myself and then working for the Universities AD and a head Coach, ( albeit many years ago, and I'll kindly not divulge just exactly how many years ago-ha!), I am very interested in what a D1 athlete's ( who does not agree with a no tolerance drinking policy, or the consequence of dismissal from the team ) perspective is, about ideal consequences.

Just curious to know.
I am keeping an optimistic and open mind.
If one doesnt like or agree with a policy, then perhaps that same individual might have suggestions as to what changes to make. Sometimes good things come from such discussions and minds can be persuaded to change.


I find it a positive to have a current athlete in this discussion and
I value thier opinion.

This thread was started two years ago. Its apparant there are many ideas and opinions at hand.

quote:

by 2709: I DO HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE IN COUNSELING SO I WOULD HAVE A GOOD IDEA IF SOMEONE HAS A PROBLEM ... how can it (allegations) be confidential when ESPN puts everything on their news reports?

umm .. the news media are NOT covered by the

"Federal Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act" (FERPA)
colleges, universities & their employees ARE

just wild assumption on my part, but I figure a masters degree would'a covered that



to whom do the schools that the (released) guys are transferring to speak with to find out if the are getting an alleged druggie or one of the clean ones?

who do the clean ones see to get their reputation back? ... Johnny Cochran? .. oops, too late



.

quote:

by moc1: Should the USC players that were caught stealing have been kicked off the team?

interesting ya brought that up ...

should the USC players that were caught GOLFING have been kicked off the team?


let's see ...

burglarizing dorms & coach's office? .. .. golfing?


yup, just notch another one up for the ol' "zero tolerance" crowd





that "horse sense" is rarer by the day

There appears to be very different opinions on regarding the topic--drinking on official visits--but it seems to have slipped into drinking during the season.

I have been reading this thread with interest since the topic first came up. Two years ago, before we were members of this message board, one of my sons went to visit two colleges within close proximity to each other and spent a night with each of them. Prior to his visit, he was very interested in one of them. He scratched it off of his list because he was taken to a party and he was incredibly turned off by all of the drinking there. He did not have the same experience at the other school. He did not go to either one, although the school where he was not invited to the party remained in the running until the very end of his decision process.

Just curious. Are there differences with "rules and regulations" between large major public universities and small private colleges? My children have gone to small private grade schools and also public schools, and I have noticed differences within the administration at each one and what they are allowed to do and how they can handle similar situations.

I graduated from a small private college. My husband graduated from a large public university. We had different experiences and different expectations. I wonder if that is what is causing the friction in this thread--the differences between small private colleges and large public universities....

FYI, my son had two official visits. He went to parties at both schools, his comments were there was less trouble to get into where he decided to go!

Either way, both were large D1 programs with huge football programs at public universities. Sometimes these type of schools have lower tolerance, sometimes they have higher tolerance. I have friends that have sons at smaller programs, there seems to be just as much, if not even more that goes on there than in sons program.
This is where good recruiting comes in. Coaches have responsibilites to find the best players, and that sometimes involves those that are mature enough to handle their surroundings with little or no temptations. Most coaches want thier recruits to see all of the aspects of college life, not just the field. Sometimes a red flag will go up if the recruit does not wish to participate and sometimes a red flag will go up if he particiaptes too much. Lots of input comes from players regarding recruits.

My opinion is that regardless of the school size, whether provate or public, a coaches responsibilities are to teach, mentor and guide their players with an open mind about college life and not rule with an iron fist regarding outside activities.