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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Ok I don't think drinking should happen on official visits and I really don't see the appeal of drinking at all - I have tried it on a few occasions and I just don't see the appeal in it. I have never been drunk and don't plan on it. Now that being said I don't think the coach is completely at fault if it happens. You have to look back at the parents of the recruit and player first. Drinking on the visit probably isn't the first time those kids drank. I went to college and played baseball and went to parties all the time. My closest buddies on the team (there were 5 of us) did not drink at all and we went to the parties and were still popular. You can go to parties and not have a drink. If I was in charge of a recruiting visit back in the day I would have taken the kid to a party. I had fun at parties (although I never drank) and would want a recruit to see how much fun is at parties. If he said anything about drinking I would tell him my views and that I did not drink and if he chose to drink I was not going to babysit him that night and the coach would be notified. Now it's his choice. When I went to a party I was never pressured into trying to drink. People did ask me if I wanted something but when I told them I didn't drink the usual response was "sweet that's more for me". I hope to be a college coach in the coming weeks and I already have my views on drinking (although I have to go with what the head coach has established). I will not tolerate it at all by anyone under the age of 21. If you are over the age of 21 then it is your choice if you do it. Under 21 you drink during the off season then you will be punished - during the season you will be removed from the team. Over 21 and you drink during the season you will be removed from the team as well. If I put you in charge of a recruit (and I hope I pick good kids to lead the recruit) and there is drinking the player is off the team because that is not the image I want for my team, school and what I endorse as a coach. I am not going to go out and try and follow my players to catch them drinking. They are all legal adults and are responsible for their decisions. If they can drink and get away with it then so be it but if they get caught then I will punish them as I see fit. The season is what you practice and play for. If you cannot say no to alcohol for the 4 months or so it takes for the season then you have a problem.
When life hands you gators - make Gatorade
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| Posts: 1347 | Location: Started in WV - then to KY - now in NC | Registered: May 12, 2006 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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concrats & good stance c-2709 ... tho I doubt it's as much a problem as many here are lead to believe if you are as adamant about the weight room you'll go far  anyway, don't beat your guys up tooo much  and good luck!! |
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| Posts: 3625 | Location: NE Ohio | Registered: December 27, 2002 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Situation exists probably just about everywhere, but as stated multiple times - kid has to take responsibility. One visit Junior went on, team took him to an off-campus party. get there, immediately gets offered a beer, declines, saying he can't b/c of his medication. gets asked what he has, tells them, gets these replies: Player #1: Man, that's a shame, my mom has Rheumatoid Arthritis - that su<ks. Player #2: Yeah, really, my brother has Crohn's disease -- that REALLY su<ks. Player #3: "Oh, man, that's great, we have a designated driver" and tosses Junior the keys!!
Of all the things I've lost in life, I miss my mind the most!
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| Posts: 586 | Location: outside Philly, PA | Registered: October 18, 2004 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Hey sorry for not getting back with people sooner but I am at my moms house and she has dial up so I try to stay off here because I have no patience. EH you make some good points and I really won't disagree with you but I can't also really agree either. When reading your response something comes to my mind about mixed messages that coaches at different levels send (I hope we don't really get off topic here but I think it sort of applies). Why in high school do you hear a lot of coaches talk about the players as "young men" and in college you hear a lot of coaches talk about the players as "boys"? One implies being responsible for your actions and knowing the difference between right and wrong while the other implies not really knowing the difference and should be given the chance to learn. As for the underage drinking I can always back up my rule with "it's against the law". If a player (regardless of age) breaks into a store and steals stuff or rapes a female would you give that player a second chance so he could learn from his mistake? Now the flipside to that would be so is getting a speeding ticket - all of those are against the law so where do you draw the line between educating vs. eliminating because of serious trouble. It's a tough spot to be in but I feel if you post and let your players and their parents know the rules then they are now responsible for the decisions they make. They know something is against the rules and what the consequences are now they are responsible for their decision. If they have to learn from that mistake then what else will you have to teach that player? Honestly I have changed my rules over the years. I used to can players when they got caught drinking but now I make it a school decision. It has actually became the basis for the school policy as to how to handle alcohol and tobacco offenses for our school in this upcoming school year. So in my case the school has taken the decision away from me and other coaches. Lastly if a college player who is probably getting part of his education paid for through a scholarship and other award lined up by the coach (probably) has to have a drink during the season - has a problem and needs help. To me his parents are the only ones who can provide that help. If he cleans up and proves he has changed then I will consider a second chance but until then I have 30 - 40 other players I am responsible for.
When life hands you gators - make Gatorade
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| Posts: 1347 | Location: Started in WV - then to KY - now in NC | Registered: May 12, 2006 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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quote: by c-2709: if a college player .. has to have a drink during the season - (he) has a problem and needs help... his parents are the only ones who can provide that help. If he cleans up and proves he has changed then I will consider a second chance but until then I have 30 - 40 other players I am responsible for.
if you indeed feel you are "resposible" for managing the day to day off field behavior of 40 guys w/50%+ being over 21 ... that's either admirable or crazy  exactly when will you have time to teach, coach & play baseball? re parents: I'm thinking not to many parents are involved in the day to day management of their adult children - - exception, Ray Romano are players also in jeopardy for violating fish & game laws? or do you have an "A" list, like robbery, rape, and a 21 yr old having a beer at Pizza Hut? |
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| Posts: 3625 | Location: NE Ohio | Registered: December 27, 2002 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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quote: are players also in jeopardy for violating fish & game laws?
or do you have an "A" list, like robbery, rape, and a 21 yr old having a beer at Pizza Hut?
Bee not sure I get what you are implying here and with other parts of your post. Could you explain a little more - thanks. EH that is my point completely. I am not going to enforce something that they do not know. If I don't have a rule about drinking then I can't do anything about it. If I have a rule then I have to do something. A kid or their parents don't agree they can go play for someone else.
When life hands you gators - make Gatorade
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| Posts: 1347 | Location: Started in WV - then to KY - now in NC | Registered: May 12, 2006 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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coach, I tried to lead you toward reaching some obvious conclusions, but ... ok, so before giving yourself high fives, consider the following the issue(s) we're discussing here have been "issues" for a looong time - IF/WHEN you land a job as a college assistant you'll find a) you are their employee b) your university as an institution has ALREADY established policies in this area c) they rely on "entry level staff" to follow the policies .. not to re-invent them d) those policies are passed DOWN the chain of command thru the athletic department to the Head Coaches, who in turn spell them out to the assistants e) assistant coaches are at the very bottom of that chain of command - f) policies are NOT passed UP the chain of commandg) an assistant's stance on an issue is irrelevant unless it's also the stance of the university .. in which case it isn't really his stance, it's the school's h) privacy laws protect most student info i) I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that privacy policy would trump the crusade of an entry level staff member to notify parents that HE diagnosed their 21 yr old kid as needing substance counseling for having a beer at the Wing Place while watching the NBA finals. however, I'd back ya on counseling IF he were watching "world cup futbol" & drinking sweet tea  j) and, of course .. wishing you the best |
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| Posts: 3625 | Location: NE Ohio | Registered: December 27, 2002 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Wow glad to see you really didn't pay any attention to any of my posts. I pretty much hit on most of the important stuff you listed. quote: Originally posted by Bee>: coach, I tried to lead you toward reaching some obvious conclusions, but ... ok, so before giving yourself high fives, consider the following the issue(s) we're discussing here have been "issues" for a looong time - IF/WHEN you land a job as a college assistant you'll find a) you are their employee *********YES THAT IS CORRECT*********** b) your university as an institution has ALREADY established policies in this area *****CAN YOU GUARANTEE EVERY SCHOOL HAS A POLICY? THE SCHOOL I AM INTERVIEWING WITH DOESN'T HAVE ONE IN PLACE. THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS MYSELF AND THE HEAD COACH HAS TALKED ABOUT. LAST YEAR WAS HIS FIRST AND HE IS RELEASING ABOUT HALF THE ROSTER BECAUSE OF DRUG AND ALCOHOL PROBLEMS. HE SAID THE SCHOOL WILL LET HIM DO AS HE SEES FIT.****** c) they rely on "entry level staff" to follow the policies .. not to re-invent them **********AS I STATED EARLIER THAT IN THE HIGH SCHOOL I MIGHT BE LEAVING DID NOT HAVE ANY POLICIES IN PLACE. THE NEW IDEAS THAT HAVE TURNED INTO POLICY CAME FROM ME - "ENTRY LEVEL STAFF". IF THERE IS NO POLICY BUT ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE IS ONE IT HAD TO BE FROM SOMEONE.********** d) those policies are passed DOWN the chain of command thru the athletic department to the Head Coaches, who in turn spell them out to the assistants *********A GOOD HEAD COACH WILL LISTEN TO HIS ASSISTANTS. IF I HAVE AN IDEA ON A POLICY ON ANYTHING I AM GOING TO PRESENT IT TO THE HEAD COACH AND THEN IT'S UP TO HIM IF HE WANTS TO FOLLOW IT OR NOT. IF HE FOLLOWS IT THEN I GUESS IT DID GO UP THE CHAIN.******** e) assistant coaches are at the very bottom of that chain of command - ***********YES YOU ARE CORRECT BUT STILL A LINK THE CHAIN AND SHOULD BE LISTENED TO************ f) policies are NOT passed UP the chain of command*********POLICIES ARE HANDED DOWN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND BUT IDEAS SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND AND MAYBE ONE DAY COME DOWN AS POLICY****** g) an assistant's stance on an issue is irrelevant unless it's also the stance of the university .. in which case it isn't really his stance, it's the school's ************PUBLICLY YOU ARE CORRECT BECAUSE THE ASSISTANT SHOULD FOLLOW WHAT THE BOSS WANTS. BEHIND CLOSED DOORS HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DISAGREE WITH THE STATUS QUO********** h) privacy laws protect most student info ***********NO IDEA WHERE YOU GOT ANYTHING FROM WHAT I PUT TO MENTION THIS BUT I WILL AGREE WITH YOU******** i) I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that privacy policy would trump the crusade of an entry level staff member to notify parents that HE diagnosed their 21 yr old kid as needing substance counseling for having a beer at the Wing Place while watching the NBA finals. ************WELL I DO HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE IN COUNSELING SO I WOULD HAVE A GOOD IDEA IF SOMEONE HAS A PROBLEM. ALSO I HAVE A SISTER WHO IS GETTING CLEAN AND SOBER SO I HAVE ALSO SEEN HOW IT CAN CHANGE A PERSON. BY THE WAY GUESS HOW ALCOHOLISM GETS STARTED???? BY DRINKING ALCOHOL. NOW DON'T GET ALL UPTIGHT AND THINK I AM SAYING THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU DRINK YOU WILL BECOME AN ALCOHOLIC. MY POINT IS WHY DRINK DURING THE SEASON? HOW WILL IT BENEFIT YOUR PERFORMANCE? IF YOU HAVE THE CONTROL TO NOT DRINK DURING THE SEASON THEN YOU SHOULD NOT DO IT. BUT IF YOU CANNOT STOP YOURSELF FROM DRINKING THEN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.******* however, I'd back ya on counseling IF he were watching "world cup futbol" & drinking sweet tea *********YEAH FUTBOL IS PRETTY LAME********* j) and, of course .. wishing you the best
Please don't take the all caps as "shouting". I just wanted to show the difference in what you put versus what I put. I am not as **** as you think but policy is policy regardless of who comes up with it. I wish you the best as well.
When life hands you gators - make Gatorade
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| Posts: 1347 | Location: Started in WV - then to KY - now in NC | Registered: May 12, 2006 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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quote: by C2709: THE SCHOOL I AM INTERVIEWING WITH DOESN'T HAVE ONE (policy) IN PLACE. THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS MYSELF AND THE HEAD COACH HAS TALKED ABOUT.
hmm, a college w/no student conduct code or discipline policies ... sounds interesting, you may indeed have your hands full, especially w/no apparent support from your administration. quote: by c2709: DELETED by the BEE>
sounds like someone will have a busy summer recruiting. good luck, it could be a tough sell as many players/parents would hesitate committing to an admitted party school atmosphere, governed by an administration w/few or no rules C2709, you have a PM |
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| Posts: 3625 | Location: NE Ohio | Registered: December 27, 2002 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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quote: Originally posted by Walawala:
coach2709,
I dont know where you plan on or are coaching right now but if every kid who drank and used tabacco during the season got kicked off my team, there would be no team.
I think some of you older people are being a little bit naive. College student athletes are adults capable for making descisions for themselves. At some point the parents and coaches have to stop making all the descisions for them. If they make a poor choice and get in trouble with the school or law, or their athletic/academic performance suffers because of it, then that is something they have to live with and take responsibility for. Its part of growing up.
I cant imagine there being a competitive D1 baseball team where nobody on the team used alcohol, tobacco, or even drugs.
If you want to run 9 choir boys out there you might go 0-56.
How old do you think I am and exactly what is your definition of old is? I would also like to know how old you are if you don't mind. To get the ball rolling I am only 33 years old. Although I am no longer a young guy I am by no means "old". You said that quote: College student athletes are adults capable for making descisions for themselves. At some point the parents and coaches have to stop making all the descisions for them. If they make a poor choice and get in trouble with the school or law, or their athletic/academic performance suffers because of it, then that is something they have to live with and take responsibility for. Its part of growing up.
and I believe that supports my case. If it is a rule you cannot drink during season nor visits and you do then you made an adult decision and have to suffer the consequences of it. If it's stated you are removed from the team then the player chose to remove themselves from the team. Do you honestly think no school in America doesn't have policies like this? Do you think the coaching staffs and schools of the 8 teams going to the College World Series don't have some sort of no drinking policy? I know college students are going to drink and do drugs and all kinds of stuff that would make good parents upset and I am not going to go sneaking around the campus and outlying area trying to find them doing the stuff. If they choose to do it then they have to suffe the consequences. It is about choices and having rules. As Bee has stated what if a guy goes to Pizza Hut to eat some wings, watch the NCAA tournament and drink a pitcher - he better hope I don't walk in on him because we would be in season. If you really look into all college programs you will see the drinking policies - regardless if they are from the school or coach - are not something new.
When life hands you gators - make Gatorade
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| Posts: 1347 | Location: Started in WV - then to KY - now in NC | Registered: May 12, 2006 | |
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