AK ...

quote:

I think it is just something that teens do these days and it should be accepted ... I'm just trying to tell the parents the facts and realities of older teenagers life.

Being factual is one thing, but in this case being factual is not RIGHT. It is illegal, period bottom line. I know that drinking alcohol is prevalent with teenagers ... I don't contribute to M A D D because I think it is a good thing but because I think it needs to be discouraged ... and I will always do whatever I can to pass along the message. In our house, it was known up front that drinking was illegal and totally unacceptable. We did NOT allow a little taste of beer or a small glass of wine during a special dinner because we wanted to discourage underage drinking, and promote a sober lifestyle as an adult due to alcoholism on both sides of the family.

I don't know how others on this site feel or believe but just because teens drink doesn't mean we should accept it ... our acceptance does not make it right. There really is a valid reason that the drinking age in this country is 21, even after experimenting with lowering it to 18 for a while ... it has to do with the neurological development of the brain and the ability to take thought processes to their full and logical comclusion (e.g., if I drink too much I could cause a fatal accident ... ). So I am a proponent for not just saying "Don't drink and drive" but "Please don't drink."

Being sober never hurt anybody !!!!

AK, It's nice to have a young guy come on here and give his opinion about a lot of different
subjects and I think you have made a lot of valid points but please step back and re-think
your reasoning on this subject. You've said that HS drinking DOES happen and that it should be
accepted, a little alcohol never hurt anyone(basically). What about a "little" cheating on
tests-it happens. A little un-protected ***-it happens. A "little" breaking the speed limit or
running a few red lights-it happens. A "little" bit of shoplifting-it happens. Yes, things happen all the time but that doesn't mean we should give our stamp of approval on them just
for that reason alone. Underage drinking is illegal-period and should never be accepted.

You may have a different take on the subject once you have teenagers of your own and are
sitting home on a Friday or Saturday night waiting on pins and needles for your son or daughter
to walk through the front door. Heck, it's bad enough when your kids don't drink and you hope
they aren't injured by another teenager who thought it was OK because over 50% of their peers
drink.

Again, please take this in the vein it was meant-try to look at both sides .

I always felt there was more than one side to the official visit. One part of the official visit is the squeaky clean part. That is where the coaching staff is recruiting the player and the family. The coaches are quick to point out how the players are subject to rules and regulations and how they are expected to be upstanding young men and represent the university at all times. The coaches are quick to tell you how proud they are of their academic record and how improper conduct by the players will not be tolerated. On the other side of the official visit, the player is allowed to experience college life usually guided by a current player on the team. Here your son usually socializes with the other players and the college population in general. Like it or not the college scene is full of parties and drinking. I don’t know if my son was offered booze during his official visit but I would be surprised if he wasn’t. If not by another ballplayer then possibly by some party goers that was in attendance at some of the parties they attended. If you expect to keep your son from being offered alcohol while in college, then you are in for a huge challenge. But....being offered something is much different than accepting something. If your son is going to say NO he needs to know how to say it.
Let’s not stick our head in the sand. On your next visit to the campus, drop by the closest convenience store and check out their inventory. Be sure to notice the boxes and boxes of beer piled in the isles of the store. Look in the walk-in coolers. Somebody around campus is consuming large quantities of alcohol.
Your son is about to be offered more than the opportunity to memorize a chapter or two of English 101. He is about to become educated in the ways of the world. Is this bad? Of course not. This is his chance to prove to himself that he can survive the real world outside the safe harbor we parents have provided. He is venturing into manhood. Your son is about to make a lot of decisions on his own. Be confident in your son and your parenting skills. Yes, your son is about to be tested. To my knowledge my son didn’t drink in college... But if he did or if he didn’t...that was a choice he made as a man, not one I made for him as his father. In the next few years your son will learn one of two things. He will either learn HOW to drink ... or....he will learn how NOT to drink.
Fungo

Did I really read what I thought I just read?

By any chance are some of you posters the same people that will call for a lynching when a first round draft pick gets caught drunk and fighting in spring training?

I know the Catholic church has had it's share of issues lately, but I don't quite see the connection between recruits drinking on an official visit and communion wine.

And alcohol being a 'test' for recruits?I can see it now:
Coach: "Boys, take this here recruit out on the town tonght. Feel free to get plastered, but let me know if the youngen' is a boozer. We don't want that kind on our team. (Or do we?)"

I'll be the first to agree kids drink. That does not make it right. I also agree kids drink on official visits. But to blame it on the coaches or the Catholics is just nuts......

It's early in the morning. Maybe I better have another cup of coffee and re-read the posts.

I realize I wasn't to clear in my post (long day). What I meant was that the player host is going to take your recruit out every night (2 nights) where beer is available. The player host will not drink or offer your son/player anything, however, it will be present and may be offered by other students. Understand that your son is still being evaluated by the coach! Now if he comes back from his visit and tells you he did indeed drink, don't freakout. It doesn't mean the coach is going to pull the scholarship. But, understand that they want to know how your player is going to handle all this new freedom. You see these coaches have got burned so many times by selecting a kid with great talent, only to have him in screw-up or end up in handcuffs. The key is to tell your son when he go's out with the player/host not to drink, not to be loud, just be friendly and end the night early. Imagine if the player host comes back to the coach the next day and tells him your player is an idiot. All the work you have done all these years is compromised because of a single foolish night. Again, if you have already "partied" on your official visit, it is not the end of the world. As long as you didn't act like an idiot or do foolish things you'll probably be O.K. The rule of thumb is "alcohol is everywhere in college. (good beer rep.s are give a certain college as a reward for good performance) It is time to grow up now and start making correct choices. Your probably getting paid to play now -(scholarship), so this is the payoff for all that hard work.

good post fungo

IMO, the reality of how the situation is handled has already been determined by how you raised your son his last 18 yrs.

during college selection (official & unofficial visits) our goal was to get a realistic impression of campus life, the team, the student body, and the community - - without a real feel, how could a fit be judged??

for the sanitized view we could have saved time & just read thru the college catalog and looked at pictures


itsagreatgame - when you exagerate extreme, your point is lost - - so, how's this?

"boys, give me your impression of this recruit tomorrow, will he fit, is he disciplined?



futurebackmom - the age was raised in the mid 80's because the feds said so (against the wishes of the states involved and under threat of withholding federal $$), the studies came later, and actually, some respected studies since have suggested the opposite - way more binge drinking, more abuse, and no supervision , etc -

instead of a laid back evening listening to music or watching a game and having a few beers at a bar (w/bartenders & bouncers), those who choose to drink do so at an unsupervised house party off campus with 25 kegs & who knows what else


hmmm, my daughter starts Ohio U next week - said she chose for her major and had no idea it would be ranked the #2 party school.
the part above about how you raised them just may not apply to daughters



.

I agree with Fungo 100%. Drinking is like any other behavior that you would prefer your college student not partake in. I've had discussions with my son during his teenage years about drinking, drugs, ***, smoking, etc. I was also told a story of a kid drinking last year where son is now going to school. I made sure and relayed that, including the consequences, on to him as well. However, they are at an age when they go off to school where they will be faced with many choices. It's the beginning of their adult lives. Some of those choices can have life altering consequences and I think I've raised my kids to make the best choices. If one of them messes up, I'll still love them and hope that they've learned from that mistake. My son's at an age now where it's up to him - with occasional reminders from mom!

Thanks for all your thoughts on this...

Fungo - I agree with you
There is drinking in HS and he has learned to say no. Now he has to learn how to say no on a visit.

I think most coaches would not be suprised to find out that the recruit was taken to a party and offered drinks. I hope the team won't turn in their report as "socially unacceptable" when he chooses not to. And then maybe he wasn't meant to go to that school.

bee> ...
Guess we are reading different studies ... The info I have read about the drinking age and why it was changed back ... for the better, I believe ... apparently is not the same as what you have read. As far as the binge drinking is concerned ... I believe in the theory of the self-fulfilling prophecy and if we keep telling young people that this happens, that this is a part of life they will be challenged with, that they need to learn to handle, and perhaps even expected to accept, then they will do just that, and then take the next step and participate instead of obvserve. I think there are way too many "news" stories that are intended to discourage such things, intended to inform the public about the extent of such things, which only goes to show the young people that this is common ... and far too many think that common = acceptable and/or expected.

To anyone who cares to read ...
Over the past couple of years, there have been several threads started where "we" have discussed underage drinking. A few of us have very conservative attitudes about it, have shared our family's and our personal feelings on the subject, and been consistent in our opinions and feelings in every discussion ... even tho we may feel like we are swimming against the tide. Somehow we who are conservative about this subject ... or in my case adament about it ... always seem to be told that this happpens, we just need to accept it, hope our sons deal with it the way we raised them yada yada yada. Well, I know it happens and I can't change that but I am still a believer that if I am not a part of the solution, I am a part of the problem. I will continue to speak against it, hoping that more people will become vocal about it instead of acquiesing and maybe just maybe someday the tide will turn and it will no longer be considered something that "kids" do as tho it is a natural stage in their development. Seeing a young man I watched grow up lying in a coffin before his 20th birthday only added to the strength of my convictions.

But all personal opinions aside on the reality of underage drinking, etc. I understood this thread to be about our opinions regarding drinking on official visits ... whether offered by a player or somebody else at a party ... and the bottom line is that it is ILLEGAL in every state, whether it happens on campus or not, and I would strongly discourage my son from attending a school where this happened on his official visit. I really don't care that it is a part of campus life ... it is not something that has to be introduced to him on an official visit and I would expect more of the coaches in their selection of players who are responsible for the visiting recruit. Whether I know he will be exposed to it in college or not, he is NOT there for the purpose of being exposed to all things college ... he is there to find out about the college's academics, the baseball team and program, etc., and the official visit does not need to be an introduction into EVERY aspect of college life. There are a lot of things that regularly and routinely happen at college which go against everything we taught our son ... engaging in pre-marital ***, cheating on tests, smoking marijuana ... but I do not feel that these are things he needs to experience on an official visit, and being exposed to alcohol falls right in there as far as I am concerned.

I am not naive enough to think that our son was not exposed to alcohol when he was at school ... one roommate in his apt the first year was old enough to drink legally and there was always booze in the apartment. I know my son consumed alcohol several times ... and even had the headaches to prove it. But that doesn't mean he needed to experience that or be exposed to that during his official visits.

Jump, thump ... that is me getting off my soapbox before I get accused again of being "preachy and condescending" because of my personal beliefs ...

futurebackMom, I do respect your view - -

I'll stay a bit off topic - - you said, "they changed it back to 21" -

until 1984 when the federal goverment held highway funds hostage, states were responsible for setting their own age - and many had it lower than 21 - there was just no way to study or come to a valid conclusion until after a change.

afterward, it seemed to have an affect on highway fatalities, but they also lowered the speed limit, made cars safer, made seatbelts mandantory, and instituted alcohol education programs during that time

and now the proponents of a "State's right" to lower it again are armed with 20 yrs of data showing it had the opposite effect intended


peace

ps: my brother-in-law is a Brewmaster, overseeing operations at 3 micro-breweries, so my view is somewhat tempered by the fact that - - -
"he goes to work everyday and drinks beer as his job" (my over-simplified description)

To simplify the debate, I'll just say that illegal stuff should not be part of an official visit to a college. Period.

i feel the need to put in my two cents here

first of all, your son is going to college, at college there will be parties, at these parties your son will drink whether he plays baseball or not

second, you want to make sure your son goes to a college he likes, why is it so bad for him to go to a party and truely experience the college so he finds out if he likes it or not?

yankeeclipper

can you honestly tell me you never drank before you were 21, or sped while driving, or did anything illegal in your entire life?

I'm a soph in HS and have never drank.

back on topic -
to simplify further - -

if your son is offered a beer -
"the sky isn't falling" & he's not in a moral "mud pit"


y'all can reach any conclusion ya want with BAD LOGIC

I've been "testing" the speed limit & rolling thru stop signs for 35 yrs (illegal), it didn't lead to cheating (my college transcripts can attest to that), I didn't go on to cocaine, robbery, or assault

We taught (attempted?) the kids the hazarards of alcohol abuse, how to act responsibly around the opposite s-e-x, that a 396/375 hp Camaro can be dangerous (), and to refrain from swimming at night -

I'm pretty sure the car stuff took OK, as neither drives anything that will go fast UPHILL

Completely on-topic, Yankeeclipper is spot on: drinking should not be a part of an official visit, whatever the bonding situation, as it's illegal.

If the question is underage drinking, it is also illegal. However, I believe we're pretty much the only country with a drinking age of 21, and the rest of the planet isn't in a basket wondering where they're going with a drinking age of 18.

Our children will be exposed to pretty much everything at college....that's part of the wonderous experience that is college: choices, mistakes, questioning, and learning in a semi-protected atmosphere.

I, too, have seen friends of my children in their coffins and in comas as a result of substance abuse. I've also seen friends of my children go completely mad-dog after having been raised with an iron hand when they were finally let out on their own.

All we can do is try to instill judgement in the little darlings. As my old Dad used to say: "Toughest job in the world and there's no training".

quote:

Originally posted by yankeeclipper:
To simplify the debate, I'll just say that illegal stuff should not be part of an official visit to a college. Period.

Right on young man. Good post and good thinking.

FutureBack.Mom---I agree with you very much.

again, I respect the opinions expressed

To be consistent, it would then be in your best interest to include in your preliminary communications with schools your intent to decline any offers, visits, or opportunities from any school where any contact with alcohol is possible - it would prevent your wasted time & open opportunities for others



bbscout, just wondering whether you guys had 2004 #1, Matt Bush on your draft board, & where?

My post was just simplifying the fact. But that isn't what I believe in. I have drank before but it isn't something I do alot and I probably won't do it for a while. Nice to read the feedback from everyone and I agree with you all.