Has anyone noticed that Baseball Ontario has made a rule change limiting player movement until Minor Bantam?

Haven't seen the new OBA rules yet. Do you have a link to them?

See below for the wording on the transfer rule. The rest of the constitutional changes and approved 2008 playing rules can be found at the following:

http://www.baseballontario.com/Admin/SideMenu/About.aspx?TopmenuID=10001

OBA 2
P1-3 b) vi) PLAYERS TO QUALIFY UNDER RESIDENCE RULE
Page 19
Delete and replace with the following:
"Players younger than Minor Bantam must play with a team within their Affiliated Association. Where a player who is Minor Bantam or older wishes to play for a team outside of their Affiliated Association, said player must procure a release from his/her Local Association and from the registrar of the Affiliated Association before becoming eligible to sign with his/her new team."

The only difference is that you must play for your local team before the age on MB. Before you could get a release.
What surprised me is that even senior players neede a release. I always thought you were only required to get a release up to age 19.

Folks,

There is alot of confusion with this new rule. Me inlcuded. The way i read into it is;

Players below Minor Bantam can still switch teams but only within there "Affiliated Association."
Meaning if your son plays within the York Simcoe Baseball Association (YSBA) which is Newmarket, Richmond Hill, Thornhill, etc he can still switch teams amongst these local associations below Minor Bantam. But, if your son wishes to play outside of the YSBA for example in the Toronto Baseball Association (TBA) or COBA etc below Minor Bantam he cannot do so.

Is this how others read into this?

The whole "affiliated association" is fine if you live in a reasonably strong area. In our case, we can play for a team that has a 15 game season (as opposed to the 54 game season we played last year). Further, there are kids on these teams that do not get a single hit all season. Even worse, there are four teams in another affiliate association closer than the closest opponent in our own affiliate.

So, we're off to Buffalo!

Slider I think you take is accurate based on what I read. Before you couldn't switch teams without a release. My son at 20 yo had to get a release to play for a COBA team.
It appears to be a slight losening of the rules. They were and are losing players to the elite teams which have no such rules. No pitch count rules either.
Buffalo ? why Buffalo ?

OBA's new rule has basically closed a door for my son for at least two years. I realize he is a statistical anomaly and they could write him off but, still there have to be others that are in the same crunch.

LL has geographic boundaries that exclude him as a Major Allstar. If they changed this they could really have a bigger foothold in Ontario.

PBLO's lower limits have not yet reached 12U.

WNY Boys of Summer is beginning to attract a number of quality teams from Buffalo and Ontario. For example, the 2007 North York Blues Major Mosquito AAA has the following on their website:

Season record
Mosquito TBA/OBA games - 49 wins, 2 losses
11U Boys of Summer and Tournament play - 14 wins, 3 losses

Overall record 63-5

Tournament Champions in:

North York Mosquito Tournament
Cambridge Toyota Tyke Tournament
Mississauga Southwest Tournament
Newmarket Silver bat Tournament
TBA Play-off Champions
OBA Provincial Champions, 3rd consecutive year

This team is a quality team and they have won OBA AAA's three years in a row. They lost more games in 17 games of the WNY Boys of Summer than they did in the OBA all season, including tournaments (ie. there are some other good teams in BOS).

We dont seem to have any alternative other than to cobble together a bunch of House Leagues.

Soryy to sound a little ticked off Bobble but, I'm well... err... #$$#!!! TICKED OFF!

There are several guys who played in the WNY area and most have come back to play elite BB.We used to play several teams from WNY and we won every game. They used to come to our tournaments and a few were so over powered that they din't come back. I think you had better investigate a little more. Every year is a new year and things do change. I would also suggest it is harder to break into a successful team. Our AAA team was never a powerhouse but it still was enjoyable up to Midget. Most good players leave for elite if they can afford it.

Hi Bobble:

I know what you are saying and I have no doubt that much could change. Months ago when I caught wind of this I mentioned it to fellow coaches and they said to me that they OBA would never be so silly...

You know where I live and you probably know by now, I have the website of every team in that league and have talked to numerous players on those teams. I will agree some are weak and some are strong. But certainly all are much stronger than House League and at least one is stronger than the best OBA team.

Your son is in college now at least 7 years away from where my son is at (I am saying lots could have changed in Buffalo too). I understand he's a pitcher. Would you send him out to the mound for 12 games to try to mow down some House League-level guys and call it a season when he was my son's age? Honestly, I know of three Dad's from my area (two of them former coaches) that left to play House League in larger centres due to less driving, more gamnes and better challenge.

If you look at the team lists (there are only 6 listed of a total of 16 considering now in my sons category) in that league, you will see Toronto, Oakville, Hamilton, Welland, Brampton, and Mississauga. It's no longer Niagara Falls and St. Catherines.

I think that much of the OBA's reason for the rule change was a reaction to Georgetown's win of Nationals this year... with only three guys from Georgetown.

That said, thanks for the word of caution.

"But, if your son wishes to play outside of the YSBA for example in the Toronto Baseball Association (TBA) or COBA etc below Minor Bantam he cannot do so".

A player absolutely CAN get released to another affiliate...but that is the affiliate's choice, not a player's and there is NO appeal at the OBA level for a denied affilate release.

What this new OBA rule does is to give the right of refusal to a player's release to the "affiliate". With this rule...affiliates can (and will) keep their better players from leaving their affilated area...under the premise of "protecting" their players...what a joke.

The problem is that now...players who are not happy in their own local association will still leave...but the better players will move within an affiliate to the best teams within the strongest associations...the strong get stronger and the weak get screwed...as usual.

North York (TBA)...Mississauga Tigers (COBA) etc etc etc will all benefit and we'll lose entire associations (eventually) while the kids are pawns in the game of who's best.

It's wrong...period.

According to an OBA VP, a player absolutely CANNOT get released to another affiliate.

My son had a Release from our Local Affiliate in early September and was not anle to use it in the fall. We planned to attend a Try Out in the spring with another affiliate and I was informed by a relatively long-of-tooth OBA VP that ecause it was after the AGM, we couldnt.

Three weeks back at indoor training, I heard that there were six new guys in one of the other sessions (read coming to Try Outs) right on the heels of this.

It's not like the OBA really needed to do this. The local teams dont exactly welcome outsiders with wide-open arms.

I still havent heard a good answer as to how we could possibly salvage a decent season of ball in Ontario.

I still havent heard a good answer as to how we could possibly salvage a decent season of ball in Ontario.

Simple...don't waste your money on "travel" and elite teams...just sell your house and move into the area for the team you want your son to play for.

Find a good OBA coach...save your kid's arm (and your money) and when he's old enough, take him to some US Showcases...if he's that good, he'll get noticed...and you'll save a fortune.

"The problem is that now...players who are not happy in their own local association will still leave...but the better players will move within an affiliate to the best teams within the strongest associations...the strong get stronger and the weak get screwed...as usual."

I know of a case in point where a talented kid will play based out of Buffalo for 2008. It will be a huge loss to the team and the loss of a Head Coach.

You are right in that some of these loops such as COBA will get stronger. At the same time, there is a huge loss of players in that loop because they have a proportionately small number of teams relative to their population. If a kid is not making
the Tier 1 team in Rookie or Minor Mosquito, they have usually left the game by Major Mosquito or Minor PeeWee. These centres can have as many as 100 kids at young age Try Outs. Of the 88 or so who dont make it, how often do they come back to Rep Try Outs? Compare this to some of the Intercounty Centres where less than 20 kids will show up.

My guess is that if WNY BOS establishes some teams in the Mississauga area at younger ages, there will be a lot of disgruntled kids who flock to these teams. There are a lot of players in those areas who are talented but will not play for certain coaches (I can think of two teams from COBA that have fit that bill in the past couple of years and not just one or two kids).

BTW... Can you find the Mississauga SW Twins on the OBA links page anymore? I see them on the WNY BOS site for 12U. I see them on the COBA site. Is that an oversite or the start of something new?

Anyone know of a website for the Westerkirk Royals out of Oakville?

THE oba IS IT'S OWN WORST ENEMY.

Some of the head guys have acted foolishly for many years trying to build walls around the teams to keep players from leaving. This latest move is a real foolish move. The explosion of elite teams has benefitted from the mistakes made by OBA.
The problem is that elite teams have become so expensive that OBA has an opportunity to get back some players. They have to provide gret coaching, great training and exposure for their players. This is not always easy because most coaches are dads and volunteers.
Our local Assoc was very good and they realized they had to adjust. Others didn't. One player I knew had to threaten to take his team assoc to court in order to allow him to play for his local AAA team as well as an elite team. They backed down and he like my son played both.
Where I saw the biggest drop off of talent was at the age of 16-17 when players often quit to take jobs and it became harder to field a decent team. Only the die hard BB guys stayed on and that meant a not so well rounded team. It reached a point where my son didn't want to play OBA anymore. Even the coach of the OBA team left and his son played elite before playing D1 for a couple years. This year he packed BB in because he couldn't fit his academic schedule in with the BB schedule.
I guess we were lucky that we had a good assoc which made the experience a very happy one. Son played rookie right through midget. He had 1 year of midget left when he stopped. He was able to get a realease the next year to play COBA senior ball which he loved. The assoc wasn't happy giving the release but they did without too much fuss.
I think it is important to experss your concerns direct to the OBA. Remyxo's points are very good. OBA was the only show in town for years and have handled the elite issue poorly. Over the years they have seen registration plummet. It is the old story that if you offer good product players will come. They have hurt their reputation which makes it even harder to rebuild. I know a few years ago our team only had about 30 guys show up for tryouts. I watched the midgets last summer and they were okay. They played a lot of Buffalo teams and did well against them. The coach has left to coach with the T-Birds 16U but I hear that may end soon.
Whe my son played OBA, Niagara Falls was one of the strongest teams winning OBA championships several times.

Sadly...the OBA doesn't care about concerns from the rank-and-file...they are only concerned about their own existence and how they can perpetuate the terms of the dinosaurs that run the OBA.

There is little or no forward thinking in the OBA and their choices are for self-preservation and reactionary, as opposed to selfless and proactive.

The best thing that could happen for baseball in Ontario is for the OBA to be taken to court and to have their player residency rule abolished. I wish I had the money or legal knowledge to do it, because I would love to bring them back to reality...but I'm sure it's coming, because they've certainly "stepped in it" this time.

Indentured servitude is the legal term I believe...any lawyers out there?

The problem is OBA is a private club and they can set realistic restrictions. If you sign you agree to their terms.

If you sign you agree to their terms.

I'm not so sure that's entirely true.

Keep in mind that when a player starts playing baseball in Ontario, they sign up with a local association, not an "affiliate" and not the OBA.

Further...no local association I know of, (or their affiliate) provide ANY written rules that players must follow as an OBA baseball player, as far as residency or elegibility. The only rules new players and their parents are exposed to are the rules of baseball and local association or tournament rules, which are usually "experienced" in games not "taught" by ANY associations.

Sure...website rules (local association, affilate & OBA) are there for the reading if a parent wants to proactively educate themselves on their rights and obligations, but we all know that nobody looks for a rule until they need to change one, or until one prevents them from doing what they want to do and by that time...it's too late.

No player or parent signs a contract to adhere to OBA rules...the assumption (one that only benefits the OBA) is that once you play for an OBA affilated team, you are agreeing to OBA rules...even if the OBA never educates or advises (in advance) you about those rules.

By the time most people want to escape OBA stupidity, it's too late...they have you where they want you...uneducated and unarmed.

So...your kid is your kid...unless he plays OBA baseball...because then he belongs to the OBA.

It's the Forest Gump approach...stupid is as stupid does!

When we signed a registration which you have to in order to play all star we knew we were locked until 18yo. They had a deadline that you had to register by inorder to play in OBA events.
We basically signed withe the local club and also the OBA. 2 separate contracts. The OBA spelled out the rules.
Basically a private club can impose restrictions. Your choice is to sign or not. There were other choices but much more expensive. I believ we paid around $350 and another $150 for district all star.
At that time we signed with an elite team for $1200 which today is super cheap. Hard to find anything below $5000. I would think OBA has a real opportunity here but seem to be blowing it.

"The OBA spelled out the rules."

They don't anymore...and local associations provide NO documented OBA requirements, or restrictions to their players when registering players...I know, because I am on one of those executives.

It confounds me that so many Affilate Executives and the OBA Executive are controlled by people who have a disturbing proportion of their Executive members that no longer have kids playing the game....hmmm.

This is about perpetuating the existence of an archaic system, in large part for the egos of a few old timers, wishing for the return of better days, from the past.