Simon Fraser is the 1st Canadian college to join NCAA. They will play at the D11 level. This could be the start of Canadian colleges joining the NCAA.

Hi Folks:

I agree that this whole thing has become over-heated and full of personal attacks and confrontations.

Let – I agree with you about what’s wrong and see a number of things you see. Still… on a public forum, you have named names. I personally know that the Georgetown bear you are poking has the disposition of not liking people from the start and getting rid of problems expeditiously. You’ve probably said enough here that you might as well have signed your name at the bottom of your posts. I also hear that among other opportunities, two of the top four PBLO programs in Ontario have been chasing him to coach – hope your son doesn’t end up where he lands! Further, that bear is respected (maybe not liked) in every facility and program in the province and he visits regularly. It never ceases to amaze me how the web is a record of how things change over time… remember how you came to the rescue of Georgetown’s good reputation in February of 2008? I know you’re frustrated and using this post as a sounding board Bud… but, seriously… nobody here has come up with a realistic path to a better system to run the OBA. My dad always said to me “Keep as many paths open as long as possible.” I can’t help but think that you’re potentially closing doors on your son’s behalf here. There is no prospect in the province that can afford to close doors – I don’t care how good they are.

Bobble may not be up on the latest OBA developments or how you can get “locked up” in COBA. He at least conceded that the Georgetown thing is wrong. In general though, the “Suck it up buttercup” message is probably good advice. My son, who’s at least a couple of years behind yours, takes weekly hitting lessons from a guy whose son is now in third year at a D2 school south of the Mason Dixon line. In general, his son’s experiences appear to be similar to those of Bobble’s son, who has now graduated from a school south of the Mason Dixon line. They were both top prospects, one a pitcher and the other a hitter. In both cases, the baseball road has been tough and there has been adversity. For guys like us, we should be gaining the experience from the few who have seriously gone through this rather than wasting our time worrying about the politics and policies of a league in the baseball wasteland of Ontario.

My guy in many ways is not god’s gift to baseball – nobody’s going to be paying his way to play. One thing’s for sure, he’s overcome set-back after set-back and long gone are the days where he’d be weeping into a pillow after a failed Try Out. Already, he has a life skill that those of greater talent may not have had the opportunity to obtain. He’s worked hard to become a skilled pitcher for his age. Fortunately, he’s a top academic. If there’s a pitching analogy “Get out there and continue to pound the strike zone (control what you can control) – do not let you emotions get the better of you and allow you opponents to win.”

Pitch – With regards to Releases, as stated earlier, you can go on to another team but, the reality of the situation is such that most Try Outs are set in the fall in the same weeks and you can only Try Out for one at a time. You end up in a time-out situation and effectively only Try Out in one place. In the Toronto area, there are teams that said to set their Try Out dates strategically. In the spring only about 10 percent of teams hold Try Outs… and typically not the stronger ones.

So… we can sit here and beat ourselves silly or work on ways to improve the situation…

Another thing I would do is go to some elite tryouts even if you don't intend to play for them. We were tryout junkies and I found that they put on their best show to try and get you to sign with them. As you know I was particularly pro T-Bird tryouts. I watched a couple Brock games with a T-Bird coach and he admitted it wasn't as good as when my son played but it was still good. Even their winter program was very good with great coaching.
I also recommend the Rebel tryout but it is a Little farther to travel. These are generally free or a very small fee.

How many successful BB players didn't start out in OBA ?

Pitch

I am not the one with the initiation of name calling. I think you befriend the so called "Old Timer" in haste. I see his comments full of name calling "Are you a drinker?" and "take a pill!". He is just simply an online bully. I do not need to apologize for anything in response to his dribbling remarks and inaccuracies.

I look forward to intelligent responses with accurate information. I have read many posts in the pasts and they are full of "I know a go who knows a guy mentality.". I respect first hand direct information and not exaggerated mis-information and look forward to discussing such differences in information.

Sorry to bore you with as I know this is not what this forum is for. I will sign off with this topic and will respectfully be respectful to those who show the same.

quote:

BobbleheadDoll you come off like you know it all but in fact you have been through it over the years and everything has gone right by you without you have the slightest idea of what the issues are. Of course the OBA rules need to be changed and always will need to be changed to keep up with the times.

The release system is an outdated and inadequate way for organized sports. The release system is subjective the local organization empire builder to determine whether a kid gets a release on one day and the next because he is not in a good mood for dislikes the parents does not grant it. Example three kids from Mississauga Tigers Bantam 1994 age wanted their releases. Two of the kids who went to Georgetown Eagles got their releases and the one kid who wanted to go to the Mississauga majors was denied. If this system is so perfect why the discrimination when it comes to who gets releases and who does not. On top of this the same guys who give out the releases then ***** and wine about Georgetown having players from everywhere else except Georgetown. It is incredible!

Bill Byckowski from Georgetown is not giving out releases to any of his kids since he lost too many to the PBLO this year. What a joke! He gets most of his kids from other organizations and now he does not want to give out releases. Thanks to the new rule that a kid must now get a release from the last organization he played with before moving somewhere else Byckowski has these kids trapped. They cannot even play with their home organization anymore without getting a release from Georgetown.

The release system needs to go out the door and leagues need to exist and survive based on their abilities and not superficial rules that keep them together not helping any of the ball players in their organization. The boys will all play somewhere without the release system. Each team can only take so many so they have to land somewhere.

All of this talk about Elite teams raiding the OBA is a just wrong. That is the next natural step for kids to go and play baseball since that is where the best talent goes plain and simple. That would be like saying the OHL raids the GTHL when they have their drafts.

Everyone likes to talk about how much Elite Ball costs and it's the big evil. The reason why Elite ball costs as much as it does is because of the traveling plain and simple. Not because the coaches are over paid and living in luxury houses. The more a team travels the more it costs.

If your local OBA team traveled as much the costs to play there would be just as high as Elite ball. Example in case the Georgetown Eagles 1994 team will become more of a travel ling team this year and may do as much as 5 or 6 US trips including a fall ball tournament in Arizona. Do you think it will cost $400 to play for Georgetown this year? Of course not. It will cost just as much as an Elite team maybe $7 or $8,000. Playing on the Georgetown OBA team at this stage is a waiste of time and money. They have to play their local loop against watered down OBA talent instead of the best in teh PBLO. The issue with the OBA teams are they do not want to do the traveling to play the high caliber baseball and the coaches (Dad) do not want to invest the time usually. Byckowski is scrambling to get players to fill the team this year with any talent and begging them not to go to the PBLO even though he has lost 4 or 5 already. He is even covering all costs of some of the players to stay. This is what he used to criticize PBLO teams who gave out scholarships. Byckowski would say "Do you want to being paying for other kids in the PBLO!" Now he is doing the same but not telling parents and players about it unless you are the select one he really needs on the team. I guess College Scholarships are a no no as w well. The team is a dim light of what it use to be talent wise and Byckowski is trying to keep a team together for his son's sake who has yet to try out and make any team other than the one his Dad is coaching.

Georgetown won the Bantam Canadians this year with half the talent they had the year before. The Canadians are an absolute joke from a talent perspective and it is not something good baseball players aspire to be part of anymore due to this. The Bantam OBA AAA on Labour Day weekend had many more talented teams than the Bantam Canadians. The Canadians were an AA tournament at best.

I am excited about the fact that Baseball Canada is finally going to recognize that the AAA OBA loop is not the talent base in Canada anymore and the Elite teams are. Baseball Canada has stated that they will be hosting a National Tournament for Elite Baseball or what they call 4A now and may eventually phase out the AAA Nationals as they are already disappeared at the peewee age.

This would be a National tournament worth going to instead of what we saw in Vaughan this past summer. It was just horrible baseball for kids of this age. Georgetown winning gold and Vaughan finishing 3rd. My god these two teams were top three in Canada at that age. I don't think so. Not even close. It was Georgetown's worst record year in the past 3. Everyone in their COBA loop beat them and they never won a tournament other than the Eliminations to get into the Canadians by chance. Vaughan finishing with a Bronze in the Canadians come on! Canada has a lot better baseball to offer than this. The issue is coaches like Byckowski and guys like Dirk Driebirg from Vaughan who host the Canadians so his kid's team can get a bye as the host team are funneling these tournaments in their direction by bending and twisting and maneuvering as much as possible.

This is a sick rant and why I asked if you drink.
I do know a lot of people in sports and unlike you I respect the fact I can't name them on a public site. If that ticks you off you can meet me at the Canisius game Sunday and see how brave you are.
i

The organization you trash is a fine organization and has helped thousands of kids realize their dream of playing college and pro ball.
I know things happen that make parents and kids upset but you have gone way too far.

You Will have a hard time finding anyone to sing the praises of the NCAA on this site.
They set the rules just like OBA and they have to be followed. As I said if Georgetown breaks them they should be kicked out .

http://www.baseballontario.com/

Bobbleheaddoll there you go again shooting off.

What you have to say is important but what everyone else has to say is a "Sick Rant". You just can't get away from the name calling can you. This is very sad. I guess this is the only place you can live out being a bully.

Georgetown Baseball Association is not in question here. Bill Byckowski is. He is the one that controls Georgetown Baseball now. He was booted from Brampton in the 1990's and now he is Georgetown pulling the same stuff.

Stop your crying Bobbleheaddoll. Get over it and move on.

Seeing your taste in baseball "Canisius" I understand where your point of view comes from.

quote:

Stop your crying Bobbleheaddoll. Get over it and move on.

Why would you think I was crying. My son graduated from a D1 in SC. Cost less than going to a local college.
played against top D1 teams.
I go to watch guys I know. You know those guys I know. Maybe if you show up I can introduce you.
I can tell you my taste is above what you watch. Even the elite ball is not what it was.
My son played elite and OBA. He played against OBJ, Team O Inc/Astros and other PBLO. I have some great video that I used to get my son his scholarship.
I enjoy intercounty SR. That is more my taste. What is yours ?
I don't care what your beef is with this coach. Georgetown is a nice community but if they are OBA they should not be allowed to import the Bulls players. If they did they are more like elite teams. Elite teams doesn't mean all players are elite on them. They are not bound by jurisdictions like OBA is. My son a couple years ago had to get a release to play for the Metros in COBA SR ball. That was only 2 years ago while he was home from college. OBA is what it is. A feeder system.

So what was the benefit of your rant to the other posters ?

Please Bobbleheaddoll a truce.

I am not on hear for a personal war against you. I repsect your taste and your baseball history I just want you to do the same with others.

The benefit of my posts (not rants) is that I have found that there is a lot of incorrect information being communicated when it comes to this specific person and the team he represents. The information I have provided is very exact and to be true.

That is all the benefit I have provided. Take it or leave it that is all I have to offer.

Peace and out.

Fair enough.

Quite a few have expressed unhappiness with some part of OBA.

I think everyone agrees that OBA does a great job of providing an avenue for kids to play ball. However, that does not mean it cannot change or improve especially since there's so much unhappiness around.

Some have expressed a need/ desire for change but not sure what that may be ...


Here are a few ideas ...

First, the problem
- Daddy ball resulting in unequal (or even unfair) playing/ bench time
- Restrictive release rules prevent players/ parent unhappy with a team to play elsewhere
- Release rules being applied unequally (G'town wasn't the only team with a no. of non-locals)

Some suggestions -
- Daddy ball for House League/ Select with rules for equal play time for all players

For rep ball ...
- Play to win. Best 9 on field to win resulting in unequal play time. Coach has freedom to pick.
- No Release rules - if you don't like coach/ team whatever, free to play elsewhere. Player has freedom to tryout for any team.

Advantages (IMHO)
- Over a certain geographic area, COBA for example, the best players in that area will play for the teams i.e. a weaker player does not get a spot just because they live in the boundary. Say the league has 10 teams then the top 140 make up the teams (assuming 14 per team).
- Coaches will need to reign in Daddy Ball if they want to attract the best talent - they will need to run the team more professionally, compete with other coaches to be the team that attracts talent.
- Hopefully, the pervasive culture of 'entitlement' will disappear.
- Kids, if unhappy, will merely change teams rather than leaving the league. Again, the league will be stronger by retaining talent within the league. In my opinion, this may result in more teams being fielded since there's a higher no. of kids staying in the league.


Disadvantages
- Could result in concentration of talent in few teams (not that this did not happen within the current rules so nothing new)
- Could dissuade some parents from becoming coaches if they can't guarantee max play time for their kids (maybe a better batch of volunteers will replace them).

Just some food for thought.

d2 I noticed on their site that OBA is voting on some changes next month. However non of the items seemed to be addressed.
The house league requires players to rotate through all positions except catcher.
There have always been issues with Daddyball. My son's teams had a father as coach and a sponsor as an assistant coach. It got so bad that the sponsor was not allowed to sponsor the team. The Coach's son was a LHP who ended up at Canisius. He was the only one of all their players other than My son who played D1 or any college ball. I was rooming with him in Troy NY at the Connie Mack NY quarter finals and he admitted he coached to make sure his son got playing time. However I always thought he was fair from Major Mosquito on.
The Georgetown thing sounds like a major screw up by the league. I would be on the phone so fast and demand they enforce the rules as written. I had a few talks with them over the years and found them reasonable. What I can't understand is why other associations didn't do anything about it
I remember playing the Bulls the year they went to the nationals. They were allowed to pick up a couple players from other organizations. That was also done in Connie Mack which really ticked me off. One import catcher caught my son in the championship game. He was a JC player home for the summer. He was a negative impact on the game. Another friend was an import for the Nationals in Melville SK and he blew one of their games according to a couple parents. They should use their own players.
Have you ever called and questioned what is going on ?
There was a big problem at Minor Mosquito one year and a parent was so upset that she complained directly to OBA. Her kid was on the team and played but the team was so bad due to the coach picking poor players who were friends of his son. The OBA sent one of the locals to investigate and the coach was fired after a few weeks. That year hurt the local association for years. The kid that complained left and went to Toronto to play. He played for the district allstar team in TO. The next year things got back to normal. My son was carded and had to play house league. Yes we were angry but the deed was done. We enjoyed watching the coach get canned. You wouldn't believe all the details. The nine good ball players tried to form a select team and demand a game against them. The association turned it down knowing it would be an embarrassment.
As far as hockey there are lots of unhappy players as well. Basket ball here is controlled by CYO. Break away teams have formed but they have gone the way of the DODO bird.
I know if I coached under the no boundary rule, I would go after the best players. Many good players under the old rules who don't make the big center teams are stuck in their local organization. That of course assumes the rules are enforced.
So if boundaries were dropped the good players would move into other areas displacing kids who might have had a Chance to play in their area. To me that doesn't seem fair and since the OBA is about development of as many players as possible their rules seem to work.
As I said a couple years ago my Son had to get a release to play COBA SR ball. It was better ball than the OBA SR ball and they gave us the release.
The OBA SR ball is a reasonably good SR league for guys who are working and don't want to travel and get too involved. We are lucky to have 3 good opportunities to play after college and pro ball. Intercounty is an envy to any area in North America.
I have watched all 3 many times and I am impressed with what each league brings to the area.
Now kids who are having issues on a one by one basis should have the ability to get a release. Having a large number move to one team is an absolute bad move. Also it should not be about winning but rather giving kids an opportunity to play and develop.
I also understand that some rural areas have poor organizations and they also should be able to move to another teams. The problem, is where to place them where they have a chance to develop and play as well as being close to home.
I believe the elite teams saw an opportunity to offer better coaching, better competition and less daddyball. Unfortunately they cost a ton of money.

Look at what Infieldad posted about the NCAA. The problems in OBA are minor in comparison but pretty real if it affects your son.

Apparently,the NCAA may be beginning to embark on an effort to further impact the ability of players who are drafted, and their families, to get advice.

I found this on another site. This was posted today on ESPN and follows and earlier article by Jerry Crasnick.

"Re: NCAA cracks down on baseball advisers Reply
NCAA's antics will push talent away
Friday, September 25, 2009
Posted by Keith Law

The NCAA's war on its own players -- at least its baseball players -- appears to be moving into a new, more aggressive phase. It has to do with a questionnaire obtained by several of us at ESPN.com, including myself and Jerry Crasnick, who wrote about this new development earlier this week.

The questionnaire was sent to players who were drafted this June but did not sign. It asks recipients to violate their own attorney-client privilege in a number of ways while also asking them to provide the NCAA with evidence that would allow it to revoke the players' eligibility, should the judicial order issued by Judge Tygh Tone in February be vacated or overturned at any point. (The judge ruled that the NCAA cannot prevent players from hiring advisers in direct contact with major league clubs.)

The questions included:

3. Did your adviser have any direct communications with any MLB clubs on your behalf?
4. Did your adviser discuss your signability with any clubs?
10. What percentage of your signing bonus would your adviser have received had you signed. (This would have been discussed during your initial meeting(s) with your adviser.)
11. If you have a written agreement with your adviser, please fax a copy of this agreement ... as soon as possible.

Make no mistake about this: The NCAA is trying to limit players' negotiating power because it wants to reduce the chances that they sign pro contracts. That would steer more talented prep players into college and retain more college players for another year of eligibility.

Most major league clubs will tell you that they want to negotiate with experienced agents who (a) understand the financial structure of the game and (b) know what is and is not standard in a first-year player contract. That kind of agent is vastly preferred over parents or family friends, who lack both the experience and the knowledge that would keep their demands in line with the loose market for amateur players.

In short, the NCAA is protecting college baseball at the expense of players' rights, their professional futures and their financial well-being.

The NCAA insists that the Eligibility Center is just gathering information and that the NCAA has no intention of violating Judge Tone's order. This is technically true, but the questionnaire's only apparent purpose is to gather information that may be used to revoke eligibility of players in the event that Judge Tone's order is overturned on appeal. If the order is vacated in any way, the NCAA will have a store of information it can use to take its revenge on players who did nothing more nefarious than use attorneys to attempt to negotiate major financial transactions for them. It is a right we all take for granted when making major life decisions like changing jobs or buying a house. And because the NCAA threatens to revoke the eligibility of a player who doesn't fill out the questionnaire -- even if the player's attorney advises him not to fill it out -- the best course of action for many players will be to lie.

What the NCAA has never made clear is this: What, exactly, is the harm to the player or to college athletics if a player uses outside counsel to negotiate with a professional team and then chooses not to sign? The player still remains an amateur in the dictionary definition of the term. He is still an unsigned player who has not received direct financial compensation for his services.

But the NCAA is trying to hold players to its own arbitrary standard of amateur-ness -- one that is out of date and at odds with MLB's practice of drafting and sometimes signing players out of high school. If the NCAA doesn't end this witch hunt, don't be surprised to see even more players sign out of high school rather than expose themselves to arbitrary and capricious punishments from the NCAA, with some players fleeing for junior colleges or NAIA programs instead.

It is possible that the NCAA will end up going in a new direction when it chooses a permanent successor to the late Myles Brand in the coming months. In the meantime, this questionnaire, and the obvious intent behind it, means that the NCAA is as determined as ever to protect its cartel at the expense of players' rights and wallets. Let's hope that future jurists agree with Judge Tone and decide that the NCAA has overstepped its authority."

With the next collective bargaining agreement likely to impact the draft, and with Bud more and more wanting to restrict bonuses and oversee slot money, players need more and better advice.
They don't need the NCAA putting them in this dilemma.
Between the NCAA and MLB, players, and their families, are going to be squeezed. In fact, the better the player, the potential for more squeeze, and bigger jeopardy.
If one looks at the long term implications, more players wills sign out of high school at a lesser bonus. The player loses financially. This will also result in more players without any college education washing out of Milb at an earlier age. The player loses.
This will result in more drafted college juniors having less leverage, less information, and less bonus. The player loses.
This seemingly results in more players returning for the 4th year of college where they will be a senior sign, with less leverage and less draft slots because more high school and JC players will be signing to avoid the dilemma. The player loses again unless he has his degree, then he just loses financially.
At least in jeopardy, you have a chance to win. Don't see it here except for MLB and the NCAA. Nothing here for the player, is there?

Boy did that topic ever take a few twists and turns from the original post.

I believe the the issue is about coaches for all their good intentions want to keep a respectable team together. If a parent believes that a team has the ability to do better and the team is being out coached then move on to a better program. Why be left behind if the coaching help isn't there. If the parent believes strongly enough in his kid (not like the hockey head cases) and thats what the kid really wants to do, then have the gonads to do it. The problem will always result in so called burn't bridges or a lost year playing down if you don't make it. It a big chance to take. We had to wait for the release but feel it might be worth it.

We took chance this fall and gambled on some guy who had a decent eye a few years back, won a few IBL batting championships for the Kitchener Panthers and Toronto Maple Leafs. If that translate into teaching kids the game then I'm for it. I don't think there is any replacement for education or skills training whether it be in school or sport related then the knowledge of the teacher/coach and the associate coaches who surround him.

Ask me in a year from now if the coaching makes any difference in the smallest kid ( growing will come naturally) on the team.

quote:

We took chance this fall and gambled on some guy who had a decent eye a few years back, won a few IBL batting championships for the Kitchener Panthers and Toronto Maple Leafs

Are you referring to a coach who coaches a team your son played on ?
The OP was about a kid showing up to tryout for an OBA team without a release from his local association.
Where you able to get a release.

Yes we were able to get the release from our local and affilate associations within 4 days in order to get to the G-town tryouts in time.

You have to do your home work before hand to be ready and it helps when I had to do this with 3 local associations 8 years ago with my oldest.

That was my point. They do release players under certain circumstances.
However it is unwise to allow players to get releases and load up a team like it appears G Town has done.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
That was my point. They do release players under certain circumstances.
However it is unwise to allow players to get releases and load up a team like it appears G Town has done.

I have 2 boys playing OBA - 1 has also played for a top team in the PBLO. I also have many friends playing OBA at various ages. In all my years in this league I have only come across 1 team that, as you put it, loaded up. Most know this team - Georgetown Eagles players born 1994.

So again, without reading the very long posts in this thread I totaly disagree with your load up theory.

So Blex you think players should be allowed to move where ever they feel they would like to play ?
You think that if that happened you wouldn't see loading up by teams by grabbing top players from other associations ?