Hi,

Does anyone know about the ECPL teams. Are they good programs.

I couldn't find anything on OIBA Prospects - does anyone have any knowledge/ experience with them.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dan blen still coaching this team.

Are you referring to the Coastal Plains Summer Collegiate league ?

quote:

Originally posted by d2e8b8:
Hi,

Does anyone know about the ECPL teams. Are they good programs.

I couldn't find anything on OIBA Prospects - does anyone have any knowledge/ experience with them.

Thanks in advance for your help.

ECPL as their website states was formed in 2008. It was born out of the old CSBL (Canadian Showcase Baseball League) now defunked which was born from the old CEBC. This league runs next to the PBLO (Premier Baseball League of Ontario) The PBLO has a respective relationship with the Ontario Baseball Association (OBA) wherein the PBLO only field teams Between 15 - 18 year olds. The ECPL have memebership teams who recruit kids under 15 years of age.

The OIBA Prospects appears to be a new team who joined the ECPL in the first season. The Thunderbirds transfered out of the PBLO last season to affiliate themselves with the ECPL. If you are looking into trying to catch on with a team in either league I would go to their respective websites then click on each team's individual 18u team website and check out how the make out placing their players with college scholarships. Most of the teams should be in the middle of holding tryouts at this time of year.

I hope this helps.

Is that what they are called now?
The original CE BC was owned by the T Bird owner. It was set up to be an alternative to the PBLO. It was a weaker league.
Now it has developed a bit better and incorporates a few US teams. Still now a strong league. The T Birds dropped out of the PBLO and have gone back to the this league under the new name.
My understanding is that the T Birds are not what they used to be as the owner is getting less involved in his SR years.
If I had a choice I would want to compete in the PBLO. Both leagues provide college exposure but the PBLO does a better job.
The OIBA has been around for some time and as I recall it was from the Barry area. Dan seemed like a good coach and I have chatted with him over the years.

ECPL is one step above OBA AAA and a step below PBLO

That may be true to a degree but there are OBA teams that would crush their best teams. They would not do well against the better teams in PBLO.

Have any of you watched the PeeWee tournament at the CNE. I remember when my son played in it. It was very exciting. There was a kid back then who hit 4 home runs that year that landed on the roof of the Medieval Times Restaurant. Last name was CYR from Kitchener.

Thanks for all good information.

One of the reasons I came here is that the OIBA website seems to consist of only the front page and the links on it don't work.

In terms of cost, the ECPL teams seem to at par with the rest of the PBLO teams (barring the most expensive ones).

OBA has some good kids but they don't play as many games plus with the volunteer parent coaches it's hit and miss on whether you have a good experience with a team.

Our last 2 years were not great in that regard where some boys were favoured/ protected while others saw more bench time.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
That may be true to a degree but there are OBA teams that would crush their best teams. They would not do well against the better teams in PBLO.

I am talking in general and referring more to the team as a whole not neccessarily the individual players.

I know players in the ECPL that can play on THE top team in the PBLO

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Have any of you watched the PeeWee tournament at the CNE. I remember when my son played in it. It was very exciting. There was a kid back then who hit 4 home runs that year that landed on the roof of the Medieval Times Restaurant. Last name was CYR from Kitchener.

very fun tournament. the short fence in centre makes for a lot of home runs. Hitting the roof of Medival Times is not that hard

The guy was 12yo and the only one I saw do that. The roof is flat and the balls went right onto the roof. He was amazing. His team won that year. He also hit other HRs that just left the yard. He was the MVP of the tournament.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
The guy was 12yo and the only one I saw do that. The roof is flat and the balls went right onto the roof. He was amazing. His team won that year. He also hit other HRs that just left the yard. He was the MVP of the tournament.

not taking away from his accomplishment but I have seen (in person) other 12 year olds hit home runs over 300 feet!

ECPL teams do not attract players at a caliber to compete with PBLO teams. I would place ECPL teams at the same level as good OBA teams. That being said as with the OBA there are some high calibre players in the league but not enough to warrant a lot of scouting activity. The ECPL league is not one level below PBLO but I would say at least two or three levels below the PBLO. You will find most of the 16U PBLO teams defeating most of the 18U ECPL teams.

The bottom line with baseball in Ontario the private PBLO teams (not the OBA/PBLO) teams usually have the top elite athletes attracted to their organziations. That is not to say teams like the METS do not get a decent draw as they do. Sadly though those players on the METS do not get the representation as those other private teams. The London Badgers do not compete well in the PBLO. Watch out for the Windsor Stars this year in the PBLO. They are a new entry. They may do well if they can get the Windsor athletes to come together on this team.

quote:

Originally posted by LET-THE-KIDS-PLAY-WHERE-THEY-WANT-TO:
ECPL teams do not attract players at a caliber to compete with PBLO teams. I would place ECPL teams at the same level as good OBA teams. That being said as with the OBA there are some high calibre players in the league but not enough to warrant a lot of scouting activity. The ECPL league is not one level below PBLO but I would say at least two or three levels below the PBLO. You will find most of the 16U PBLO teams defeating most of the 18U ECPL teams.

The bottom line with baseball in Ontario the private PBLO teams (not the OBA/PBLO) teams usually have the top elite athletes attracted to their organziations. That is not to say teams like the METS do not get a decent draw as they do. Sadly though those players on the METS do not get the representation as those other private teams. The London Badgers do not compete well in the PBLO. Watch out for the Windsor Stars this year in the PBLO. They are a new entry. They may do well if they can get the Windsor athletes to come together on this team.

You pay dearly for representation, as you put it. Keep in mind you dont necessarily need the PBLO to get schollarships -which is the goal for most players.

We are a couple of years away from 16U. I can say that there have been years where my
son’s baseball training etc. has cost as much as almost any PBLO program would today (in excess of $10K). If one does any kind of research about the schools that your son could attend, in most cases, you could go to their off-season camps to get a direct sense of your sons prospects. There are in fact inexpensive prospect showcases in Ontario that can allow you to cast a bigger net.

If your kid is academically inclined, is a baseball scholarship to a US school the best way to go. If this is a money decision, be careful! A half scholarship to a school that has tuition that is twice as much as a good local school may not be the route to go. Let’s say your kid is cranking an 85 which is pretty much the cutoff to get into a good engineering school. How far away would you have to send him to find a similar educational experience? For example, to find a school which is the equivalent of the University of Waterloo, you’d have to look at places like Georgia Tech, MIT, etc. A half-scholarship to one of those places is still going to leave you with a bill that’s probably twice as much as if you’d stayed home and went to Waterloo. Do you want to spend $10K to $15K a year for a few years with these PBLO teams just to qualify for spending more money? Could your son actually carry the course load for a heavy program like engineering, etc. if they were part of a baseball program?

I meet a lot of young men who at the end of their high school careers chose a path where they went to a US school for a few years, and seem to have taken courses which didn’t really lead them to a strong career after baseball. Maybe they weren’t ready for college/university at the end of school anyways so it was as good as anything at that point. Maybe they were not inclined to do well in courses that would land them a job after school anyways. It just seems to me that a lot of these guys seem a bit aimless and underemployed after the baseball dream has ended.

When I look through the list of PBLO teams successful placements, I am not over-the-top impressed. Many of the school names read the same year-over-year – likely long-term linkages to the coaching staffs or the geography of where they go to play. I’m not saying that these placements weren’t right for the kids involved but, I would guess that 75% of them would be poor choices for mine.

Back to it… instead of paying $12K on a PBLO, throw $2K at specific training, spend $3K on three or four University Prep camps (Wayne State, Ohio State, Binghampton, University of Michigan, etc. all run these) run by the actual coaches that would be recruiting your son. Throw a few bucks at ProTeach’s Prospect Camps. Throw another $1K at the OBA. Half price and if you work out the training well, you may end up ahead of the game from a skills level. Plus, you wont be running around all over the planet. Also, you don’t have to wait until 16 to do this.

I am not anti-PBLO. There is a regimen to their programs and some players will improve greatly by being involved with them. In general, you are getting what you pay for. Not all great players in the province play for a PBLO – not all can afford it or can justify it. So don’t tell yourself, that your signing up to be with the best. Sign up because the program will make a difference for your kid; your kid can handle the commitment; your kid will enjoy the experience; and your kid will get greater exposure.

Notlong have fun at the BKTB tournament My son played in it years ago.
You make some good points about Canadians playing US college ball. A 50% ride is a tough thing to get. Most position players are lucky to get any BB money. It is even tougher with new D1 rules.
Typically US colleges run up wards of 18,000 just for tuition compared to 5000 here. Then you add room board and books plus flights. Many of the schools we talked to were 30,000 plus.
If we had to pay what many are paying for elite teams we would have changed our approach. It doesn't make sense to pay 5000 a year plus to get a deal with a US college that may have no BB money.
When my son went the exchange rate was 23% and a return flight was 500. If he hadn't got the money he did he wouldn't have gone. Ne also had 2 jobs on campus that gave him good money.
One of his bosses transfered to UNC Wilmington and just gave him a job while he is in Wilmington.

Hi Bobble:

PBLO's are generally up in price for the more prestigeous programs. I went to watch some of the Terriers and I believe their program is $8500 but, it's all inclusive with Florida in. It's my understanding that OBJ and Team O are over $10K. The Terriers have a heck of a staff and are a solid organization. For several winters, we have trained/played in Florida at March Break. Last winter my son played with ProTeach against the Mets down there. We have briefly watched some of the tournaments the PBLO teams attend. If you take home the tournament program and go back through and compare the teams that were there against the scholarship placements - the correlation isnt that strong. When it gets down to it, the PBLO teams more or less guarantee that your kids team mates are seriously committed. They are getting great training and they are playing a lot of baseball.

Perhaps the greatest influence on my 13YO's 2010 baseball season is that he made a top level (16th in the province and rising) basketball team. At 6' and 180 lbs., the flat-out running involved in the three practices a week is rapidly transforming his physique. For some reason, the depth of coaching in basketball is far greater than OBA baseball. The kids on this team were selected for both ability and their commitment to work. $500 gets you a six month season that is pretty much the same atmosphere and commitment as a PBLO.

This is the first year in many that we have taken time off from baseball and I sense next year may be my son's strongest year ever. He will enter Minor Bantam having pitched from 60' for two years prior. We are going to gradually work on a curve this spring to add to his repertoire (he is 2+ years into puberty and had his overdue first shave last week). That's why I wouldn't mind seeing you sometime if possible Bobble. He will also work on hitting with a tremendous private coach we found last year. Sometime this summer we will attend one or two of the University prep camps (which normally take kids entering Gr 9).

Under this scheme, your kid could be getting feedback from a Head Coach (in our case a coach that was a former pitching specialist) in a school of his choosing a year before he would even be playing PBLO. Many of these places provide written evaluations. Based on PBLO schedules, you might not have the time to attend these prep camps.

Cheers

NOTLONG
QUOTE:
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PBLO's are generally up in price for the more prestigious programs. I went to watch some of the Terriers and I believe their program is $8500 but, it's all inclusive with Florida in. It's my understanding that OBJ and Team O are over $10K. The Terriers have a heck of a staff and are a solid organization. For several winters, we have trained/played in Florida at March Break. Last winter my son played with ProTeach against the Mets down there. We have briefly watched some of the tournaments the PBLO teams attend. If you take home the tournament program and go back through and compare the teams that were there against the scholarship placements - the correlation isnt that strong. When it gets down to it, the PBLO teams more or less guarantee that your kids team mates are seriously committed. They are getting great training and they are playing a lot of baseball.
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NOTLONG I believe the following would be more correct for the 16U's.
The Terriers 16U program is $7,800 or there about (Fall Ball and no Florida Trip or there is an extra cost for it).

Team Ontario 16Us are approx. $7,500 (No fall ball trip and now for the first time an official 16U trip to Florida in March).

OBJ 16U's are $8,900 which includes a Fall Ball Trip to South Carolina and a March Break Trip to Florida.

So as you can see the top 3 teams typically are priced very much the same once you compare apples to apples. If you add an extra trip to the Terriers and Team O you will find they will be in line with the OBJ costs around $8,900.
The bottom line in the PBLO is that if you play for a non OBA related PBLO team the costs will be higher just because you get what you pay for. These teams are not taking anyone for a ride. Every cent is worth it. They spend most of the money on training and travel. If an OBA team would have to do the same it would cost more so they do not try and run the same program and run a program with a few trips, less traing, and weaker coaches (in most cases) rather than what they do in the PBLO.

I would suggest teams like the Toronto Mets and London Badgers would be around 3/4 of the price after all is said and done because they do less.

I have seen a lot of post in regards to OBA vs. PBLO costs. This is like comparing apples and oranges. You sign up for each of these organizations for different reasons and different requirements. As with College Baseball some kids pay and some kids get part scholarships and some kids get full scholarships. The PBLO is no different. Some kids pay more and some kids get scholarships on all of the three major teams anyway. So if your kid is good enough at the PBLO age and can get a scholarship go for it. If he is not then he has to pay to get better so he can get a scholarship in College. If he still is not good enough then he will pay for a good chunk of his college or all as well. If your kid had to pay $20K to go to Notre Dame in the US and play baseball would he? You’re going to pay $20K to go to Waterloo and no baseball.

Using some of the numbers quoted by you earlier:
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Back to it… instead of paying $12K on a PBLO, throw $2K at specific training, spend $3K on three or four University Prep camps (Wayne State, Ohio State, Binghampton, University of Michigan, etc. all run these) run by the actual coaches that would be recruiting your son. Throw a few bucks at ProTeach’s Prospect Camps. Throw another $1K at the OBA. Half price and if you work out the training well, you may end up ahead of the game from a skills level. Plus, you won’t be running around all over the planet. Also, you don’t have to wait until 16 to do this.
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This is all fine and dandy but you have left out all of the hidden cost let alone you will receive about 1/3 of the training and will be competing against what I would classify as below average players in baseball as compared to PBLO players. You also leave all of the hidden costs you fail to realize such as travel not only for your kid but now the parents and siblings as well as all your time. I know you can go on trips without them but how much does that suck for them. How much does it cost your family to really play in the OBA and do all of the training (PRO TEACH etc) and then do all of the travelling and do all of the Showcases and have no support infrastructure to assist you and so on and so on. This is one of the main deliverables of PBLO teams to do all of this without parents making it a full time job. My kid can go to a tournament/showcase in Florida, Arizona, or Indiana and I do not have to invest my time to go. I do not have to book hotels and air fair and meals and so on and so on.

There are some OBA teams that are becoming more aggressive with the training and travel such as the Georgetown Eagles. Most of their better players have left and gone to the PBLO but since the coach’s son is on the team he will carry on. The parents will spend more money with this team than on a PBLO team if they try and replicate the same travel. They will have to do all of the arrangements themselves, most likely each trip will cost at least 2 or 3 times more per family and they will not get the same level of competition in league play during the year which will ultimately hurt them. But if this plan works for them there is nothing wrong with that.

You have to realize not every parent wants to dive in and take on their kid’s baseball as a full time job. This is what you are signing up for with the methodology you apply to. Now if you let your kid play in the OBA and don’t worry about the showcases etc and be a normal parent and then one day a scout comes along and picks your kid then that I would say is great. Otherwise you are just convincing yourself you can do it just as good as these other teams but cheaper. You are wrong you cannot. The only way this will happen is if your kid is natural wonder at baseball. Be very honest with yourself. Can he play 2 or 3 ages groups up? Does he really blow everyone away at his own age group and I am not talking 15 or 20 home runs or a 70-75 mph fast ball at 13. It would fall in the line of 30 or 40 home runs and an 80 mph fast ball at 13.

NOTLONG you are no different as we have all been there. My kid is an exceptional ball player better than 98% of others at his own age but the bottom line is he really wants to be a better ball player (the easy way for parent and player) then you get on a PBLO team. If not, you do it the hard way as you have documented.

There are a lot of OBA parents that always like to put down the costs of playing in the PBLO. The costs are not the issue as much as is your boy in the right organization. Your kid has the opportunity to do more in baseball now with the PBLO than he has in the OBA. There is nothing wrong with that but each organization have very different things and experiences to offer the kids. Comparing dollars is really not what it is about. For my kid the life experience he is getting in the PBLO is very different than the OBA. The OBA is really not there to develop kids that way and you will find the PBLO takes a boy and helps him be a responsible young man. A boy can play baseball in the OBA and always be a boy. There is nothing wrong with that. It is all dependent on what you as a family feels is right at the right time.

I see a player my son used to play against just got taken in the 7th round NBA draft. Russel Hicks is 7' tall and 255 lbs. He played D1 for Pepperdine and Florida International My son had to guard him which was fun.
We found HS basketball was really well run. Also Ontario Basketball was great. We actually had run ins with the guy who runs CYO. My son played for a break away team started by disgruntled parents called the St Catharines Heat. He also played in the CYO house league which was fun and not too demanding. We were unaware of the politics going on but believe me it is just as bad as BB.
Yes the cost of these teams in PBLO and other leagues is just crazy. Talked to a lady at a Bullit tryout . She told me she was paying $750. month all year. I watched for an hour and it was no better than OBA.
Remind me when you are in town and I will try to take in a game.

Tom

Blexann you quote:
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You pay dearly for representation, as you put it. Keep in mind you dont necessarily need the PBLO to get scholarships -which is the goal for most players.
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The PBLO is not just about scholarships or MLB draft. You don't just pay for representation. It is about making better ball players and better kids. It about competing against the best and growing and maturing in a discipline environment. To play at the Elite level you must always compete against the best. This is the golden rule. The training, maturing, responsibility and development is what the PBLO offers. The scholarships and MLB draft will come as well.

Some kids will get greater bigger scholarships and some will get what most frown upon as weaker school scholarships. What most don't realize that this is the law of nature. This is the destiny for kids they will go to a lesser school and play baseball even if they are not the best. That is just the way it happens because they want it. Good for them if that is what they want and go and get it. Everyone cannot go to D1 schools on a full ride. Just does not happen. They are just as good a person as all the D1 full ride kids. They just are not as baseball talented.

There are a lot of scholarships available and yes you do not have to play in the PBLO but if your just after a scholarship then go get one. You don't need the PBLO or the OBA for that. What quality of life/growing/maturity/baseball do you want for your kid is the question. If all you have on your mind is a scholarship during your kids high school years then his teen years will go by quickly and with disappointment. If he plays baseball and learns, grows and matures and scholarship is secondary and get's the right one then it is all worth it. Yes I will pay dearly for that.