Happy New Year!
So here we go again..
Lets forget the recruiting topic for a second.
And go back to The Insider's post that no one replied to.

Food for thought
1. Why did Tenn baseball get better when Raybans initally started?

2. What were the elements when it was on a roll?

3. What happened when things weren't going so well?

4. What is going to happen differently than the previous few years? (responding "nothing" is not applicable)

Love and Peace to all

This is a "very" uneducated opinion.

quote:

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1. Why did Tenn baseball get better when Raybans initally started?

2. What were the elements when it was on a roll?

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1 and 2 - The conversion of Lower Hudson field into Lindsey Nelson Stadium was a big step forward for the program.

Some great local talent emerged in the mid-90s and elected to play for the home state university: (the Knox Central boys - Freeman, Helton, Trammell); other in-state stars R.A. Dickey, and others).

The pitching staff avoided serious injury, becoming one of the best in the league.

quote:

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3. What happened when things weren't going so well?

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3 - Other programs in the league have continued to upgrade facilities. Lindsey Nelson has fallen behind the times.

Recruiting, which is always a gamble, hasn't worked as well. Players signing pro contracts, pitchers coming in with arm trouble (or developing arm trouble here). When you rely on pitching and defense to win games in college, you'd better be **** good at it.

There's been a revolving door at the pitching coach position (Serrano, Mack, Mazey, etc.)

There aren't many Todd Heltons and Chris Burkes around.

quote:

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4. What is going to happen differently than the previous few years? (responding "nothing" is not applicable)

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4. Knowing what is going to happen differently is way beyond my cognitive abilities. Hopefully the planned improvements to Lindsey Nelson will at least get more fans back to the ballpark.

The program needs to have more recruiting successes. I don't pretend to have the answer to that. Is it keeping the local stars home? Is it being able to evaluate who is more likely to enroll in school vs. take the professional money? Is it being able to insert more offense in the lineup?

Spidey,
One of my New Year's resolutions was to "only lurk" in the Ray-Bans threads.

"If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot."

Me Too! Happy New Year Spidey!

I'm going to take a shot at these questions (not potshots)

1. Why did Tenn baseball get better when Raybans initally started?

Answer: Because Rod and Larry Simcox recruited like mad men. Early on the recruiting was done heavily in the junior college ranks. The program was on life-support and needed help fast. Joe Randa was probably the most successful of the juco transfers. Two other juco transfers that helped put the train back on the tracks were Bubba Trammell and Chris Freeman (both Knoxville Central) and freshman Jeff Foster (South Doyle) among others.

Rod knows talent when it comes to recruiting and in the early days he was getting the best players from in-state and adding to them with a mix of juco and freshman players from Florida, Georgia and California. Rod was on the road alot himself. Coaches used to comment "we see that guy everywhere."

2. What were the elements when it was on a roll?

UT played "Rod Ball" and was very good at it. They pitched well, played incredible defense and ran and ran and ran. It was fun to watch the opposing pitcher and catcher when any of the many UT speedsters got on base!

UT stole 170+ bases in 1991. They led the nation in team fielding in 1993 and 1994.

UT has been to the CWS twice in Rod's tenure. Both times while riding National Player's of the Year to Omaha. (Todd Helton and Chris Burke)

Another very key element in the turn around and then the drop off (in my opinion) was when Rod hired Dave Serrano as the pitching coach (before the 1995 season) and when Serrano left (after the '96 season). Serrano helped open up the California recruiting territory in ways that UT had only barely touched previously.

3. What happened when things weren't going so well?

The Tennessee program seemed to have lost it's way to a degree. With other SEC schools playing "gorilla ball." Rod and the staff went looking for power hitters. In doing so it seemed that they never quite got to the level that some of the other schools did with home run numbers, yet they also lost their team speed and defensive abilities. The team set a UT record for home runs one season, but it was still well behind the conference leaders. Lindsey Nelson is the wrong stadium to play long ball in .... few "cheapies" there.

Long time recruiter Larry Simcox stepped back and Randy Mazey was the main guy. And that's all I will say about that.

The 2001 team was one of those great stories of over-achievers. I know that sounds a bit odd when you consider the future pro talent on that team. Burke, Christenson, Allen, Herrera, Daniel, Bibee and most likely Hicklen.

The team was pitching short and Rod made a great move by throwing off at the SEC tourney. He saved his best, most healthy arms and lost two quick ones in order to get back to Knoxville and be ready for the regional that Coach Dickey had purchased for the team.

The team got hot -- Wake Forest (#1 regional seed) made a dumb move and under estimated Tennessee Tech's #1 starter and they ended up in the losers bracket the first night. Wyatt Allen and Dewon Brazelton gave the UT and MTSU fans a game for the ages and the ride to the CWS was an unexpected treasure.

4. What is going to happen differently than the previous few years?

No crystal ball here. This team should be able to pitch well, but the old team speed and stellar defense does not look to be there. Last season hitting was a problem, maybe it will be improved this year.

I've been there since the beginning and things have changed.

Now spiderman since I have been good enough to offer my comments let's hear yours.

Bob,
"Doing nothing is still a course of action"

No Lurking Allowed! Vol and Tenndad are required to respond as well as the insider.

The one thing I have learned from this is that 90% of communication is non-verbal this plus tone of conversation can't be expressed on message boards. Nothing I post is personal or intended to be. To achieve notoriety one must have an adversary. Ali vs Frasier Spiderman vs Green Goblin Yankees vs Red Sox

so...have we gone back and read the insiders post? as I believe Tom Cruise asked Jack Nicklson in a movie "answer the question" "you want to know the truth" (what was that movie anyway?)


"Don't drink and Drive"

Spidey,
To be honest, I’ve grown weary of this subject, but I feel that you bring a genuine concern to bring this topic back to this forum. For that reason, I will add some constructive information to the debate.

As Bob alluded: “UT played "Rod Ball" and was very good at it.”

This is Ray-Bans claim to fame and deservedly so. Coach helped the Vols win by moving the ball around the field with hitting, bunting and aggressively running the bases. His teams never relied on the big home-run hitters to score lots of runs; he coached to make things happen. Bob mentioned that UT stole 170+ bases in 1991, but he failed to add that they also led the SEC in this category in 1990 and 1991.

His teams with an aggressive offense usually were accompanied with an outstanding defense and overall great team speed. Many of us were there in the stands and enjoyed his brand of baseball immensely. Bob spoke of Eduardo Figueroa, not that he really fits the style for speed on the base path, but he was a favorite of our family as well. Our family ate more than a few meals with “Fig” and his lovely girlfriend. It’s odd that Bob and I have never even talked about “Fig”.

Ray-Bans aggressive teams affected his opponent’s game and led to many wins as he often forced errors and mistakes when the games were on the line in the late innings. Has his teams of late strayed from his trademark game?

"If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot."

Happy New Year Spidey!

The Movie is: "A Few Good Men"

Jack says: You want the truth! You can't handle the Truth!

I worked with Lance Smith from our small town who played outfield for the Vols in the 95 world series. Not many people wanted Lance Smith, Doug Barner MTSU(Devil Rays) or Doc McDonald drafted out of Columbia State 18th round in 94 by the Okland A's when they were out of high school.

I watched the movie SeaBiscuit last night! Some kids are just like that little horse! As a coach if you don't find the right buttons for each player they will never give you all they have! Some players are overlooked just like that little horse who left that big high class perfect bread stallion in the dust. You have to watch kids, find out about them, See what makes them tick, because you cannot always measure the size of there heart!

Just think of us as the old Cowboy Horse trainer who didn't give up on something because it was a little banged up or less than perfect! Some things blossom when given a chance.

Everyone thinks we hate the Vols! We have never said anything bad about the team or players! We never said anything bad about the fine coach Larry Simcox either!

We fully realize there are great players outside of Tennessee but our question is are we losing the same amount of talent (or better) to other SEC schools as we are gaining.

We (have) said a few things about the late pitching coaches and Rod's thinking in recruiting! Does this make us hate the Vols?

I don't think so!

49 days till baseball season!

Spidey: Define SKEWED!
Indirect or evasive, Distorted, Biased, Devious, misleading, or dishonest.

Sketchy: Lacking in substance or completeness.


Can we expect some of your thoughts on this subject?

Spidey,
You have lured us out again on this topic and as Bob has said, “Now spiderman since I have been good enough to offer my comments let's hear yours.” Can we expect some of your thoughts on this subject?

"If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot."

I have no doubt everyone like the Vols. I just enjoy the debate. I enjoy thought out and informed/researched opinions.

Here are my responces and I will ask another question at the end.

1 Why did Tn Baseball do well when RB started?

Because he was out to make a name for himself and other programs weren't as good or were in transition as well. When ever there is a coaching change the first few recruiting classes are solid because you are selling a dream of the future and that can't be measured.
He recruited Tenn more because 14 years ago the showcase element wasn't as strong. (I'll comment on that later)

2. What were the elements when it was on a roll?

Same answer as above, yes small ball works and speed kills. That is the way to go but (chicks and fans and players do love the long ball, plus bats have changed. RB was on a mission

3. What happened when it wasn't going so well?

Serrano left! RB got tired or should we say enjoy the fruits of his labors. It doesn't take three gurus to ran a ball team but it does take one. (one on field=game management & one to recruit=more hard work and time than genius)
Its hard to win when pitches are touches to the nose is the system and everyone knows it. Sometimes one can help themselves by having others help. (was there a shower story somewhere) (the insider)

The program even then wasn't terrible just not going as well as before, last year wasn't that bad but disappointing.

4. What is going to happen?

The Vols are going to be better than last year,
Corral can be a Serrano, the Stadium will add to recruiting and Raybans will be around for us to make more posts!


Here is my statement

By reading posts I'm under the impression that you all believe major D1 is all about winning?
Assuming that is true, why would you want your son or daughter to go to one? If coaches are required to win at all costs the treatment of the athletes goes sour, education is compromised and the students receive to much exposure for their maturity. If your son did something wrong do you want it in the USA TODAY?

Go to Middle Tenn, East, Tech, Austin Peay baseball will still be challenging, education great and the experience rewarding. Nothing wrong with traveling in vans vs a plane, one uni vs 12 400 people vs 2400. And if your good enough, you will go on to the next level.
(remember the post from the KY parent?)

Ray Bans is doing more favors to everyone than we think.

I gave those questions to see what the answers would be and they were all great, but not a lot of emphasis on recruiting although there were some points made, more in the direction that there were great players where they came from to me is a minor issue. I'll give my opinion on why it is the way it is later (recruiting)


Go OVC

Spidey:
I guess I didn’t do too well making my point. The three guys I mentioned really had a tuff time getting anyone to look at them back in early 1990’s even though they were some of the best to ever come out of the black hole in Northwest Tennessee where there is no news coverage.

Today with the number of showcases and events a player can attend there is no reason for a player not to have a chance to be seen by a number of coaches and have a chance to play at the next level if they have the talent. The whole ball of wax has totally changed in the last 14 years.

I have been studying your points. Don’t you think the coach who sends his assist. coaches on the road to recruit should have more faith in there ability to judge talent? Have the coaches gotten lazy covering territory? Is there little to no money in the travel budget? Or do they feel that covering the top so many events allows them to see all they need to?

Colleges are now having select hitting or pitcher/catcher camps for high school players during the summer and the travel teams have taken off like a rocket. Perfect game and Team One have given players the opportunity to go up against there peers from across the nation to see where they stack up. Baseball America/Perfect game keeps everyone informed with a ranking of the top high school players by state.

The pro’s have showcases like the East Coast Pro and the Ohio Valley Pro Scouts Association workout in Louisville Kentucky to evaluate talent for the draft.

I think the Lottery money may change things in some ways because they now have a sign going towards Murray State in our area that says go out of state but leave Lottery Scholarship money at home. (Can't take it with you!) This is kinda sad since it is so close to home.

We all know Recruiting and the development of the recruiting is a top issue for any program. Its the life blood of the future. Thats what started all these posts. We were under the impression you wanted to talk about other issues besides recruiting. Bad recruiting year and you are in trouble 2-3 years down the road. Thank Goodness for JUCO's.

PS: The top Have-nots ride grey hounds and do sometimes fly.

If a player is ranked nationally in high school and drafted by the pro's shouldn't he be good enough to play for state U or are they recruiting what they feel are top 20 rounders who won't sign with the pro's because they want to go to college first? The rest go to the have-nots.

Signed,
Green Goblin

Green Goblin

Thanks for paying attention.
Serveral Statements:

The coach should pay attention to assistants, more than Ms Hilton.

Your statement is well put, coaches aren't lazy but don't feel the need because showcase coverage allows them to see what they need. They should cover the area anyway so when the draft comes they can make up ground. Having some remote areas can be an advantage.

Team one rankings are just rankings. Why should we play the season out if we are ranked last. One just never knows. Supposedly less than 50% of first rounders make it to the big leagues.

The ability to access information today is enmormous, critical thinking is vital to solid opinions or judgements. All of you have been well informed and backed your opinions with solid information (maybe except one and I think he might have been more on my side!)

So the answer is?

A. Everyone knows the issues, the if's why's and but's and is smart enough to figure it all out. So let's just see where this goes

B. A system like Minnesota or Washington is desirable by all.

C. RUN AND HIDE ORANGE1 IS FIRED UP!!!

D. A,B,C

E. No need to go to Memphis, nothing ever came from there but Elvis (Ray Bands kind of looks like him) (sorry in advance-I would put one of those smiley faces with the wink but not sure how to do it)

Spidey:

When you are through being creative, click on the smiley face next to the url button and select the perfect smiley face to compliment your post.

So I go to the top showcases on the east coast and west coast and perfect game down in Jupiter Florida. I find four guys I want real bad that fits into the mold of players I like on my team. I use up most of my scholorship money.

Later I go through the list of home state guys and others and hope they will sign for what's left in my budget for the year unless someone transfers or quits and then I have more money.

Is this what we have decided!

Here is vanderbilt's stance on the subject:
I know the coaches at MTSU think the same thing, look in your back yard before going up the street!

"Our goals were to sign the best players in the state of Tennessee and find tough, talented, athletic players and we did just that. A recruiting class can’t be measured until two-to-three years down the road, but these recruits will have an impact on our program sooner than later," Corbin said.

"David Price and Kyle Waldrop are two of the best players in the state of Tennessee as well as the country. Both were highly sought after by other SEC and ACC schools. They both possess great size (6’5) and are two-way players with tremendous athletic ability.

Maybe we should call him "The Gladiator"


Green Goblin

PS: How do you like your new Spiderman?
You can thank Hiwassee Vol for his computer talent!

It seems to me that a majority of the 'regular' posters on this forum believe that high school players should 'market' themselves at showcases---specifically PG and Team One and other national events. When the Tennessee coach recruits nationally at these showcases the people in his state don't like it, and they praise the coaches who do recruit more locally.

And of course, on the other hand, those of you Tennessee people whose sons are playing for great college coaches are extremely happy. From my point of view, which is as an outsider with no biases about anything connected to the state of Tennessee, it is a little disconcerting to see that many of you are choosing to be so critical of a coach who is approaching 600 or 700 wins or something like that.

grateful,
Many of us have recently gone through therapy and are now headed in the direction of "positive thoughts" toward our loved and admired Vols program and really appreciate our coach. I thought my post above on "Ray-Bans claim to fame" shed some very positive acclaim to the coach.

I would never intently be disconcerting toward our coach.

"If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot."

HiwassseeVol....

You are right, and I'm glad the therapy is working for you guys.....keep up the positive thoughts!!

HV,
When did Bob have you placed in "the home" again for additional therapy? It must have been after the cavity search at the airport...

Grateful, thank you for interjecting objective, unbiased thoughts to this subject.

Many of us have sons who are in varying stages of Tennessee high school and college baseball. When family is involved, emotions obviously run high. Couple this with the Vol's disappointing performances on the field recently and you get a volatile mixture. Warts and blemishes tend to be noticed more "at home." Conversely, the positives are overshadowed.

This doesn't mean that constructive changes can't be made. Many believe that some changes are needed. Survival of the species requires occasional changes to the genetic pool. I'm not implying that this means anyone should be fired or replaced. But I hope that the UT athletic dept. will make an honest evaluation about the state of the baseball program and work toward making the program competitive in the SEC East. Some posters believe that UT has missed the boat recently in terms of recruiting decisions and player management. Even the most successful program will have its critics. That doesn't mean that folks don't care. In fact, I believe the people who post here are more likely to at least make an effort to support the program by attending games. If you've been to a UT baseball game in recent years you'll notice that attendance by the "average" fan has been dwindling.

Negativism is not necessarily the preferred method of critique. But, most of the regular posters in this forum do care.

For many of us, our sons are (or will be) involved with other programs. However, many of us will also hold an allegiance to our state university.

I'm all for success, not failure. I appreciate the legacy that Raybans has started at UT. Before he arrived on campus, the baseball program was an absolute afterthought, with it's previous CWS appearance being in 1951. Sometimes success is a curse in itself. Once expectations are raised, then everyone wants that level of success all the time. UT's football coach is experiencing that issue now. Since winning the BCS National Championship in 1998, a 10-3 season is not good enough for some "fans."

If LSU or Miss. St. suddenly ran into a period of 3 or 4 seasons of sub-par performance, don't you think folks would be questioning their recruiting and their performance? I think the answer is "yes."

We, as fans, are often two-faced. As concerned parents we want to be sure that our boys are getting the best in terms of education and life lessons. At the same time, many are not happy if that education and life-training comes at the expense of wins and NCAA appearances. I think our arguments have also become muddled in this forum. We've tried to combine concerns for our in-state players with the success of our in-state university. Maybe the two issues need to be separated.

The fact that our in-state rivals seem to be beating us at our own game makes it tough on us Vol fans. When General Neyland (who was also a baseball coach) was hired by the university, one of his primary goals was to beat Vanderbilt. Looks like things may have come full circle.

As a parent (and friend of other baseball parents) I am overjoyed that our boys are being given the opportunity to pursue an education, while they play the game they love. I'll be rooting for them individually, even when they are playing my beloved Vols.

Maybe it's a case of us "wanting our cake and eating it too". Maybe we can't have both. But, that doesn't stop us from wanting the best for both our kids and our university.

Nicely put BIZAZZ!! Now that the team is healthy again I think people will be hyappy with the results. The team has the makeup to play the kind of ball coach D is best at.

Son #2 got a letter at school yesterday that said he had made who's who in sports. Is this any big deal? Never knew it existed.