Ok I'm pretty sure I know the answer but want to check with you guys. This is Fed by the way - HS rules.

Runner on first and he takes off on the pitch and the hitter lifts a fly ball to the OF. The middle IF cannot fake turning a double play to get the runner to slide into second and hope the OF can throw him out at 1B.

BUT

Runner on third and less than two outs. Hitter lifts a floating linedrive to the OF. It's that flyball that looks like it's going to drop but not quite sure so the runner is shuffling away from the bag anticipating it being down and not caught. The OF comes in acting like he is going to catch it on the run by having his glove up and yelling "mine or got it". This forces the runner on third to go back to tag up but the ball does land in front of the OF.

Is it because of safety - not wanting a player to slide when he doesn't have to - the first situation isn't allowed but the second situation is allowed?

It's not about safety, it's about deceiving the runner. In the case of the MIF, say shortstop, faking a tag or otherwise causing the runner to believe a play is imminent at second when it's not then thats obvious obstruction. The runner is intent on making it near second and then picking up the third base coach's signal. The SS steping in and faking a play will distract the runner unfairly and cause him to stop, slide or slow down, thus obstruction.

In the case of a runner being on third and a ball hit to the outfield. The outfielder can yell I've got it all he wants but the base runner on third and coach can easily judge themselves how much of a chance the outfielder has to catch the ball and react accordingly, thus no obstruction.

Well, FED does have lots of rules which are motivated by safety, but I doubt that safety is the "reason" here. Fake tags (at any base, and under any circumstance) are considered obstruction.
In your first situation, the player doing the deking has no actual play on the ball, but in the second situation, F7 is presumably the only player to have a shot at catching or fielding the ball. What could be wrong about the only player with an opportunity to field the ball announcing that fact?

An additional aspect of the second situation is that the play is fairly slow in developing, and the runner has a coach to help him. In Fed caseplay 6.2.4E, the rationale for allowing the Miami play is that the base coach has the responsibility to keep the runner informed.

Interestingly, when this was discussed in Indianaoplis, safety was quoted as the primary reason for the prohibition of the fake tag.

No, I am almost postitive he means.............

National Federation of State High School Associations
PO BOX 690
Indianapolis, IN 46206
317.972.6900 (Ph) 317.822.5700 (Fax)

Although there may be valid under lying reasons for NFHS rules, they are almost always described as for "safety reasons"...........

Thanks, piaa, I have withdrawn my comment.

If the runner picks up the pitch you dont have to worry about anything. Back when middle infielders were taught to fake catching a ground ball on pop ups so the runner would continue to second base. Result he slides and they double him off first. Now faking a tag is a whole different ballgame.

quote:

Runner on first and he takes off on the pitch and the hitter lifts a fly ball to the OF. The middle IF cannot fake turning a double play to get the runner to slide into second and hope the OF can throw him out at 1B.

I don't know for certain that the above statement is true. I have never considered anything other than a true fake tag, i.e. a fielder moving his glove to the ground near a base simulating a tag attempt, as a fake tag. Likewise, in Will's post, a fielder is faking the fielding of a ground ball so that a runner will continue to second base and slide in. I wouldn't put that action in the realm of a fake tag either.

I understand that either of those actions could entice a player to slide when he doesn't have to but I just don't see them as fake tags for the purpose of enforcing the rule.

If anyone has any hard info (Fed interp or such) indicating that they should be considered part of the fake tag/obstruction rule please let me know.

I'll check the BRD and see if there is any official interp....

The BRD specifically mentions only a fake tag......a fake tag is an act by a defensive player without the ball that simulates a tag.......

so going by that, simulating a DP would not be considered a fake tag, but a legal decoy.....

the support offered is FED case play 187-348....B1 is streaking between first and second following a hit to the outfield. F4 pounds his glove as if about to receive a throw. B1 slows down and stops on second.

Ruling- F4's action is not a fake tag but is a legal decoy........

best I can do, my J/R is at work

piaa,

I appreciate your input. Thanks.

piaa_ump - thank you for taking the time to look that up. I always felt that punishing the defense for a heads up play and protecting the offense for not paying attention was wrong.