I am not an umpire. I do attend many games at different levels and it seems that the coaches and fans have gotten worse and worse. Coaches constantly making snide remarks, no respect for the game nor the umpires and parents even worse.

Why don't officials put an end to it, b/c it is obvious that coaches aren't going to police themselves and parents aren't going to either.

quote:

Originally posted by OA5II:
I am not an umpire. I do attend many games at different levels and it seems that the coaches and fans have gotten worse and worse. Coaches constantly making snide remarks, no respect for the game nor the umpires and parents even worse.

Why don't officials put an end to it, b/c it is obvious that coaches aren't going to police themselves and parents aren't going to either.

So much material, so little time. I'll address part B now and take another look at part A a bit later.

By rule, umpires have no jurisdiction over the fans, unless they come onto the field. Yes, I know, some umpires have been known to "eject fans." But they really do not have that authority.

Engaging fans is like stepping in quick sand. Once you start, you get drawn in further and the more you struggle or try to extricate yourself, the worse it gets.

American Legion, in the code of conduct that coaches sign, speficially makes them responsible for their fans. A great idea.

The five steps in dealing with fans are:

1. Ignore them
2. Ignore them
3. Ignore them
4. If they have gotten to the point that they are disrupting or behaving violently, or making your job impossible, seek out an AD or tournament director and ask them to defuse the situation.
5. If there is no TD or AD, instruct the head coach to fix it. If he refuses, ask the new head coach to fix it.

If all that fails, you can, depending on the rule set, declare a forfeit or suspend the game.

It should NEVER come to either of those, however.

quote:

The five steps in dealing with fans are:

1. Ignore them
2. Ignore them
3. Ignore them
4. If they have gotten to the point that they are disrupting or behaving violently, or making your job impossible, seek out an AD or tournament director and ask them to defuse the situation.
5. If there is no TD or AD, instruct the head coach to fix it. If he refuses, ask the new head coach to fix it.

If all that fails, you can, depending on the rule set, declare a forfeit or suspend the game.

It should NEVER come to either of those, however.

Coaches, I handle.......

Fans, I ignore..........

well said Jimmy........excellent post.

quote:

Why don't officials put an end to it, b/c it is obvious that coaches aren't going to police themselves and parents aren't going to either.

I am working on it. Remember "Get Smart"?
I am working on a patent for a "cone of silence", it will replace the out of play boundries on all fields, will be adaptable to any sport.

But as others have posted, nothing an umpire can do about the fans.

So what does happen? Why do coaches, fans, players and well, sometimes officials as well, act the way they do? It's always made me shake my head and say hmmm? I don't think it's getting worse, just changing faces from year to year. I've been involved in BB since 1969 and I've seen these antics at every level. Just not enough professional attitudes out there to go around IMO.
The answers: Peer pressure and applicable authorities taking "action".

Coaches: players act like a fool, bench em or dismiss em from the roster. I've done this as a coach, star players, non-star players, big games and small.
Parents: your kid plays for a coach that acts like a fool, take your concerns to the governing body of that league, to the coach/s, or quit em.
Kids: coach acts like a fool, threaten to quit em, sometimes "your stuck" I know, but stating your concerns to the coach may help, if your teammates agree, then a team meeting with the skipper may be the answer.
Leagues: your coaches act like fools, fire em.
Parents: your co-fans act like fools, quit em.
Coaches: your fans act like fools, squelch em or quit.
As a player I don't recall myself or a teammate ever acting a fool towards a call no matter what. Just wasns't allowed by the coaches I had. Thanks guys.
As a coach, I would not allow my players to question an umpires decision, throw stuff, curse or generally "act a fool", this was cleary stated at my pre-season team meetings, and was followed up if needed. We did offer pro-rated refunds by the way.
As a coach "my parents only" pre-season meetings also clearly stated my views on inappropriate antics for my players and fans as well. Not much I could threaten or promise them (parents), but at least they got the message. If and when some did act a fool, I approached them and did my best to squelch this activity, usually worked, only failed once, and a league official tossed them from the facility. And I followed up with a personal visit with the guilty party after the game, it worked, no further "foolishness".

My approach to team sports was that I was playing, coaching in a position to represent my community.
What message do we want to project about our community? That's your call..

Many umpires say they will "ignore". With backstops less than 20 feet from your rear, ignore isn't an option when the abuse is constant and personal. There is a responsibility to players to deploy penalties to coaches and fans when they are so.

Poosey:
I don't understand your last sentence. We have no power outside the fences. If it gets too out of line you may need to involve your game administrator.

You may not but I do, Michael. This last week I had an adult game with a haranguing fan (F1s wife). I let it go for an inning or so, pulled of my helmet, and gave her two choices. One was to leave, she chose to shut up.

THanks Poosey.

There is your answer as to why fans act the way they do.

Umpires who think the world revolves around them. If she was not cursing you or making threats, you have no legal rights to say anything to her, even adult ball.

When an umpire talks to a fan, he shows his level of umpiring.

We bring this stuff on ourselves. Ignore them.

Jeff

Glad to hear you say that !!!


All too of the Blue Contingent have ears bigger than usual---used to be that umps ignored the fans now it seems that they hear things that were not even said

Fans who believe the umpires are objects of abuse can kiss my grits, Jeff. Has nothing to do with center of worlds, that is in your mind only. Do you support fans abusing umpires because they are supposedly defenseless by the rules? Is this your sole justification for abusing umpires, that it is because we are self-centered?

I know that very few good umpires who call the game right have many run ins with fans. It is the ones who think they are boss.
I also know there are jerks as fans. But reality is we are getting paid and they are paying. There is very little that a fan can say to me that will bother me. Don't curse me or talk to or about a particular player. Other than that like or don't like my calls. Holler all you want.
Again, I believe most of it is ego.
BTW, what was the wife saying to you? Was she questioning balls and strikes? That is part of baseball.
I was at WWBA for three weeks and saw some of the best youth baseball and umpiring. The umpires were professional and friendly with the fans and coaches. Knew the rules and called the games fairly. Some parents questioned strike zones and the umps just agreed to disagree. The one ump that got in a fan's face was asked to go home, along with the fan.

Jeff has the point on this one........our influence does not extend beyond the field.......and engaging fans seldom turns out well........

No one here condones abuse of umpires from fans...but the fans are the responsibility of the coach.......or site director......

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:
Jeff has the point on this one........our influence does not extend beyond the field.......and engaging fans seldom turns out well........

Turns out well for me.

Poosey, no it doesn't. You may think that you have resolved the situation, but you did it at your own professional expense. The fan wins you lose. That simple.
Any time I see blue engage a fan I am embarrased for him and I assume he is just a hack.
It is so much more effective to let the coach handle it. I have seen several occasions(especially in HS) where the coach has walked over to the fence(at the request of PU) and asked the fans to tone it down. EVERYTIME it stops right there.

Now lets do an exercise:

Me in the stands: "BLUE YOU SUK"!!!!!

poosey: "?"

Let's summarize. I have a errant fan who is abusing another human being. I refuse to tolerate the abuse and take care of the situation. You can assume whatever you want to but anyone who tolerates up with abuse teaches the exact opposite of what umpiring stands for. Fair play in a sportsmanlike environment.

Btw, do you umpire with regularity?

What you have is a jerk OUTSIDE the fence. If it normal abuse, live with it. If it becomes rude or vulgar get the game management involved. If you say something then you are as wrong as they are.

quote:

Originally posted by Poosey:
Let's summarize. I have a errant fan who is abusing another human being. I refuse to tolerate the abuse and take care of the situation. You can assume whatever you want to but anyone who tolerates up with abuse teaches the exact opposite of what umpiring stands for. Fair play in a sportsmanlike environment.

Btw, do you umpire with regularity?

Wrong.

You are being employed as the abiter of a sporting event. This sporting event has rules. Part of these rules limit your jurisdiction. Your jurisdiction ends at the field. PERIOD!

If you act as you have stated, addressing fans, you are acting outside of your jurisdiction or simply making up rules.

quote:

Any time I see blue engage a fan I am embarrased for him and I assume he is just a hack.

I assume you have a big opinion of yourself from this statement thinking anyone cares what you think.

Anytime I hear an alleged fan or coach conduct themself in this manner I assume the coach is a jerk for not controlling his fans.

Why does behavior that would get you fired on your job have to be tolerated? Why does behavior that would get your a.. beat if it happened on the street have to tolerated? Why? Because you idiots think you are behind a fence and protected. Wow, big man. You think the game is about you. I heard so many idiot fans and coaches brag about the bad way they conduct themselves at games. I assume it is a deficiency in their life. Their lack of character and good upbringing. Is it any wonder that the kids don't know how to conduct themselves in public with the bad language and behavior we see everywhere?

I know the county I'm in doesn't tolerate abuse of umpires, coaches, players, etc during school games, or for that matter any game at the amateur level. I'm talking about the personal attacks, threatening behavior. Conduct yourself in the manner that I see written hear and you will find yourself suspended for a couple of games or as a fan banned from school or county property.

A friend of mine at a high school game had someone getting very personal with the insults at a game. Eventually he tossed the guy. The big man told my friend he would meet him in the parking lot. My friend told him that would be the second mistake he made that day if he was still there when my friend got to the parking lot. Naturally the man wasn't there. He wasn't there because it's easy being a big man when there is a fence between you and your target.

Grow up.

According to the original post there were no threats made. Just questioning strike zone. What you guys don't realize is that we are the reason for the problems. REad the statements made by many of you on here who defend this behavior are the same ones who say you make up your own strike zone.

I agree, threats, cursing should get you tossed. But questioning strike zones and judgment calls should not.

Again, I will turn it around on you. Some of you who umpire the way you do with the threats could not back them up without the fence and your uniform.

mccol
"blue you suk" was tongue in cheek. As a coach or fan I have never been removed from a game.
I do not myself, or condone umpire abuse. period.
It does happen though, the point is..there is an appropriate way to handle it and it is NOT to personally engage a fan. It is bush period.

Answer this: what kind of umpire takes on a fan directly when he has the option of making the coach, game director, tourney director, AD etc.. to
handle the situation?

No one here is saying its ok to harass an umpire but rather how it should be handle when it occurs.

And don't jump in here with your first post, go on a rant telling peaple to grow up.