What is the best way for a coach to address the following situation?

Happened last year- Pitcher for visiting team (cross-area rival) is being extremely dileberate. Take upwards of 30 seconds between pitches. He is waiting for the batter to drop the hands and lose concentration. Between innings (bottom 1st-top 2nd) I ask the PU to watch the kids time between pitches. Next inning, same thing. I encourage my players to call time, regroup and hit. PU states to my players that if they continue to call time he will call them for delay. When asked for explanation (politely, and between innings) he defends his actions toward my players, and states that it is not his job to time the pitcher. BU (a younger, very polite guy) states that he cannot do anything.

The outcome for us was a very frustrating 1 run loss in a game that we needed. What should a coach do?

Another example of the umpires not controling the game and not knowing the rules.

NFHS Rule: 6-2-2(c) failing to pitch or make or attempt a play, including a legal feint, within 20 seconds after he received the ball.

PENALTY: The batter shall be awarded one ball

Umpires not knowing the rules, or even worse, not caring to know them.

arrrrrggg!

of all the things I carry on the field.... ball bags, balls, indicators, pencil, lineup cards......I dont have a stopwatch.

I know the rule and if I feel its being violated I will call a ball. Have I ever?....nope. Why? Because 20 seconds is a long time......try counting one one thousand two two thousand.........and seeing how long 20 seconds is.

if I have a pitcher taking too long., I'll speak to the coach in between innings, and tell him to speed him up. If he refuses, I'll grant time every time a batter asks for it.

I'd love to call the game by the letter of the rule book, but the practice of the game makes it near impossible.

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Originally posted by Tiger3boy:

Next inning, same thing. I encourage my players to call time, regroup and hit. PU states to my players that if they continue to call time he will call them for delay. When asked for explanation (politely, and between innings) he defends his actions toward my players, and states that it is not his job to time the pitcher. BU (a younger, very polite guy) states that he cannot do anything.

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Same thing happened to my team with an area rival. Except that the pitcher was throwing the ball as soon as she got it(Yep, a girl and she could throw 75. We all had a lot of respect for her. She was a good player. She's playing softball for the HS team now and doing great). Anyway, she was killing us. I instructed the batters to call time. And it threw her timing off. The ump warned me, so I told them not to call time unless they were down on the pitch count. We ended up winning the game by one run.

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Originally posted by tasmit:

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Originally posted by Tiger3boy:

Next inning, same thing. I encourage my players to call time, regroup and hit. PU states to my players that if they continue to call time he will call them for delay. When asked for explanation (politely, and between innings) he defends his actions toward my players, and states that it is not his job to time the pitcher. BU (a younger, very polite guy) states that he cannot do anything.

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Same thing happened to my team with an area rival. Except that the pitcher was throwing the ball as soon as she got it(Yep, a girl and she could throw 75. We all had a lot of respect for her. She was a good player. She's playing softball for the HS team now and doing great). Anyway, she was killing us. I instructed the batters to call time. And it threw her timing off. The ump warned me, so I told them not to call time unless they were down on the pitch count. We ended up winning the game by one run.

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Players/managers/coaches do NOT call time, they request it. ONLY the umpire(s) call time.

At my pre-game, I reminded the coaches that, "I don't grant time automatically. If the pitcher has started his/her pitching move, I will not grant time. Tell your players that if they ask for time, make sure I grant it before doing anything".

As for a pitcher pitching as soon as he/she received the ball, that it's a quick pitch and illegal. When that happened, I called, "No pitch", and explained that the next time, it would be a balk. That stopped it.

An umpire, especially the PU, has to keep control of the game.

Bob

Bob, you are 100% correct. The key to this situation is to control the game.

You do not need a stopwatch to determine if the pitcher to abusing the rule of either taking to long, or quick pitching.

The decision an umpire makes can not be made out of context. If it is obvious that the the pitcher is deliberly taking to long, you deal with.

Whether you want to talk to the coach between innings, say something to the catcher, or be a rules jockey and call a ball immediatley it's all about how you, the umpire, controls the game. Any of the abovementioned options are all correct. But what one is the best can only be determined by the situation.

No one has answered the question. How, as a coach can I deal with this? The PU, by not enforcing the rule affected the game. To be blunt, I had the game on video, and was sorely tempted to send it to the association for review, but I would not want someone to do this to me, so I held off. This was as aggravating a situation as I have seen as a coach, and I am still wondering if there was a way to get the rule enforced without getting the thumb.

As already stated the pitcher has 20 seconds to pitch. However no one answered what to do about it. You did exactly what you were supposed to do when faced with a umpire not enforcing a simple rule, you asked him to take care of the problem. His response was to state it isn't his job to time the pitcher. Well, he is 100% wrong. If it isn't his job, who's is it. Once he in essence refused to enforce the rule then your only course of action is to protest. At that point he has to pull his partner in and discuss it. Hopefully the BU will be able convince him to do his job.

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Originally posted by Tiger3boy:
No one has answered the question. How, as a coach can I deal with this? The PU, by not enforcing the rule affected the game. To be blunt, I had the game on video, and was sorely tempted to send it to the association for review, but I would not want someone to do this to me, so I held off. This was as aggravating a situation as I have seen as a coach, and I am still wondering if there was a way to get the rule enforced without getting the thumb.

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Contact the Instructional Chairman for the Umpires' Association that serves your area, and tell him the situation. Tell him you have the game on tape, and would be happy to review it with him. Also, be sure to tell him about the PU's comments. That's totally unprofessional.

I can understand your frustration. I share it, because umpires(?) like that give the rest a bad name. When I had the misfortune to work with someone like that, I reported it to the IC myself.

Bob

I really thought that taking the tape would have been considered pretty extreme, and considering my previous thread I really did not want that action hanging over me. The imput here has been good. I think that if I run into this again I will be a little better prepared.
It has been too long now since the actual game happened, so I will just file this under lessons learned. We will face that pitcher 2-3 times this season. I would rather not have to use a tape, but I see that it might be necessary if it happens again. I hope it does not though.

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Originally posted by Tiger3boy:
I really thought that taking the tape would have been considered pretty extreme, and considering my previous thread I really did not want that action hanging over me. The imput here has been good. I think that if I run into this again I will be a little better prepared.
It has been too long now since the actual game happened, so I will just file this under lessons learned. We will face that pitcher 2-3 times this season. I would rather not have to use a tape, but I see that it might be necessary if it happens again. I hope it does not though.

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To paraphrase an old saying (at my age, they're the only kind I know), "Faint heart never won a protest". If an umpire tells you that, "It's not my job", to enforce the rules, PROTEST. 6.2.1.c. List the rule, the situation, and the PU's remarks. Have your AD contact the association by phone, and in writing.

I hated to work with officials who would not enforce the rules because they were too lazy, or whatever. They make their partner(s) job more difficult. And, they make us all look bad. Many umps get away with sloppy officiating because coaches are reticent to complain to the proper authorities. The players deserve to have their games called the right way.

Bob

Excellent response Bob. I would save the tape as a very last resort though. I would definitely protest and contact the assoc about the umpire in question.

I carried a rule book (part of the equipment, I think).

One of my favorite things was to "Show them" the rule.

Unfortunatly most coaches won't read and be familiar with the WHOLE book. It always helps to know what leg you're standing on

"You should enter a ballpark the way you enter a church." Bill -Spaceman- Lee

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Originally posted by Pitchinside:
I carried a rule book (part of the equipment, I think).

One of my favorite things was to "Show them" the rule.

Unfortunatly most coaches won't read and be familiar with the WHOLE book. It always helps to know what leg you're standing on

"You should enter a ballpark the way you enter a church." Bill -Spaceman- Lee

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If you bring a rule book out, you're going to have to prove EVERY ruling you make. Leave it in your car, and show the coach AFTER the game.

Bob