Had an ump this weekend call a balk on our pitcher for throwing to an unoccupied base. Runner on 2nd, pitcher comes set, runner takes off for 3rd, our pitcher steps off and throws to 3rd.

Rule 8.05 (d) states a pitcher can not throw or feint a throw to an unoccupied base EXCEPT for the purpose of making a play or trying to make a play.

If the pitcher comes set and the runner takes off for 3rd and then the pitcher throws to 3rd, even though the base in unoccupied the pitcher is obviously trying to make a play....

I say the ump blew this call, what say you?

When the pitcher threw to 3rd base did he step towards third, or did he just throw the ball to 3rd?

If he just threw the ball to third it's a balk. If he stepped towards 3rd and threw the ball it is not a balk.

Need some more info before we can determine if it's a balk or not.

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If he just threw the ball to third it's a balk. If he stepped towards 3rd and threw the ball it is not a balk.

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..... our pitcher steps off and throws to 3rd.

If pitcher stepped off first he doesn't need to step to the base.

In any case, it seems that the ump got it wrong.

One of the few problems I have with baseball rules is that we always put exceptions at the end of the rules....I think the careless umpire student only reads the first part and not the last.....and we end up with results like the above call....

Lets take that rule.

Rule 8.05 (d) states a pitcher can not throw or feint a throw to an unoccupied base EXCEPT for the purpose of making a play or trying to make a play.

Does it come accross easier if we word it like this.....

Rule 8.05 (d) Except for the purpose of making a play or trying to make a play, a pitcher can not throw or feint a throw to an unoccupied base

probably wont help much, but it does put the exception in the forefront.......

Unless there is something we cant see..., it was a blown call.

piaa - Please re-write the rules. Your example makes so much more sense.

style - I should have read it better.

UMP BLEW THE CALL.

He stepped off of the mound. The ump didn't call a balke because of his movement, He said he called it because he threw to an unoccupied base.

Funny thing is the coach for the other team played SS for Oklahoma U. when they won the College World Series in 1994, and played 8 years in pro ball, and he even said it was a balk. Guess playing does not an umpire make.

and sometimes its the opposite

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playing does not an umpire make

Got that right. I always get a kick out of some of the ex-player TV announcers and their attempts to explain the rules.

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Originally posted by StyleMismatch:

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playing does not an umpire make

Got that right. I always get a kick out of some of the ex-player TV announcers and their attempts to explain the rules.

No doubt! Joe Morgan has a complete and total inability to grasp the rules and he routinely spouts off on something when he flat wrong! My wife usually mocks me when I start yelling the proper rule explanation at him when he is lost. She thinks it is pretty funny.

I am going to assume the pitcher was RH. If when he came set and he picked his leg up to deliver to the plate the runner stole BUT the pitcher did not cross his back leg AND then stepped to third then you open the door to debate whether it is a balk or not (basically it is the right handed equivelant to the LHP throw to 1B move). He has made a move toward the plate but also satisfying the requirements for another balk rule he steps to 3B. Is that a balk or not?????

If he stepped off then he is no longer in a position to deceive a runner. He can legally throw the ball where he wants - even to left field.

If he flinched / moved / paniced when the runner left 2B and then stepped off / threw to 3B then that is a balk.

I love baseball - you have to be smart and good a debating.

In your sitch if he picks his foot up and throws to third to get the runner he is OK. If he started toward home and then threw to third it is a balk. If you think he hung his foot therefore stopping his motion, then it's a balk. And finally if he crosses the back plane of the rubber completely then he has to pitch or go to second. Anywhere else and it's a balk.

He came set, checked the runner, the runner had already broke to 3rd, the pitcher stepped towards 3rd and threw the ball, the 3rd baseman tagged the runner. The ump called balk because he said "pitcher can not throw to an unoccupied base"

cccs -
In your original post, you said your pitcher stepped off and threw to 3rd base.

In your last post, you said he stepped towards 3rd and threw the ball.

These are two diiferent situations.
Based upon what actually occured can we determine if there was a balk or not.

The reason I bring this up, is because as an umpire we have to make the decision based upon what happened at the time. Yet over the past 7-days, your explanation has changed. It could be a typo on your part, or as you have read the various situation, maybe you revised your situation based upon what actually happened.

Bottom line, the umps explanation for the balk was wrong. But was there a balk??? It's hard to tell.

Pirate fan he did step off, he checked the runner, who had broke to 3rd, the pitcher stepped towards 3rd, and threw, he was off the rubber when he threw and stepped off towards 3rd after he saw the runner had broke to 3rd. The ump and the opposing coach never questioned the pitchers move, only that he had thrown to an unoccupied base.

If he stepped off then it is not a balk no way, no how.

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Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
If he stepped off then it is not a balk no way, no how.

Unless he

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Originally posted by cccsdad:
stepped off towards 3rd after he saw the runner had broke to 3rd.

If he stepped (with his right foot) directly toward third base then that would be a balk, but if he properly disengaged the rubber it would not be a balk. It seems that the umpire didn't have a great grasp of the rules in this situation.

He came set, picked up his front foot and stepped towards 3rd, he made no deceptive move he made the same move you would when you throw to 3rd on a pick off. stepped towards 3rd with his front foot. Again, his motion was not brought into question, just that he threw to an unoccupied base.

If that is what he did then as long as the runner was actually stealing he is OK.

The ump got it wrong. Doesn't even pass the "common sense rule", let alone the rule stated above.

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Originally posted by cccsdad:
He came set, picked up his front foot and stepped towards 3rd, he made no deceptive move he made the same move you would when you throw to 3rd on a pick off. stepped towards 3rd with his front foot. Again, his motion was not brought into question, just that he threw to an unoccupied base.

If the runner made any motion that could be construed as being an attempt or fake attempt for third base then this move is legal. Unfortunately this umpire must not know or understand the applicable ruling.

FYI cccsdad, the action you describe is not "stepping off" it is a direct move "from the rubber".