Game 2 in the 7th inning. Runners on first and second. Line drive by Damon at Howard that he snares (although replay shows trapped). He throws to Rollins at second off the bag (why would he throw to second unless he knew he trapped the ball and was starting a double play). Rollins sees them call Damon out and tags Posada while standing on second. He never touches second. Didn't they even blow this call too after all was said and done. Shouldn't it have been an appeal play? Can Posada be tagged out while standing on a base? Could someone familar with MLB rules clarify?

They got this right. Only thing you can criticize is the line drive being trapped and only we know it was through 21st century technology. I highly doubt anybody in the world would see the ball hit the ground CLEARLY during live action.

Now since he caught the ball in the air all runners have to return to the base they occupied at the time of the pitch. In this case the guy they tagged at second was supposed to be at first. They can either retire him by stepping on first or tagging him out.

What probably went through everyone's head

Posada who was at first - he's not sure if it was caught or not. He has no chance to make it back to first so he gambles and heads to second hoping he can get there safe or disrupt a doubleplay. It would have worked if the ump ruled it wasn't a catch. He was hung out to dry and he did what he thought would be best. Try to break up the double play and have a runner at first.

Howard - he probably had no idea if he caught it cleanly or not. He got caught in between in what to do.

I don't think there was any screw up here at all. If I'm Girardi I come out and ask what happened and get an explanation but that's about it. They handled it well.

It looks like the ball might have hit the ground but there was nothing definate to say yes or no. So you make the best call you can make and go with it.

I don't think this is a play that should help the argument for instant replay. In another thread I said after a couple of blown calls by one guy we should have it but in this case the umps were in a bad spot and they handled it as best they could.

In six man mechanics, which is losing favor rapidly, U1 has that call and was standing where he is prescribed to be. With that view, he called what he saw.

Everything after that, including the runner tagged while on second was done correctly.

Jimmy would you say that 6 man mechanics are losing favor because they rarely do it? Reason I ask is that on the high school level the two man system is used and most umps I talk to hate doing a 3 or 4 man system because they almost never use it.

Isn't the six man system kind of pointless now that there is replay of controversial homers? I always thought they were there to get out on homers and make sure there was no fan interference or any other funny business (you know, precisely what Rich Garcia didn't do...yeah I'm an O's fan). If they can do that with replay now, why bother with the extra umps? I could be wrong as to that being their primary purpose though.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Jimmy would you say that 6 man mechanics are losing favor because they rarely do it? Reason I ask is that on the high school level the two man system is used and most umps I talk to hate doing a 3 or 4 man system because they almost never use it.

The major league umpires I've spoken with give two reasons.

First, they don't believe the line umpire positions don't contribute anything, especially in today's smaller parks and may actually be detrimental. You will see the RF and LF line umps positioned fairly close to U1 and U2. Some believe this provides nothing in front of them, and the promximty to line plays behind them can be so close that the play just "explodes" on them. It is harder to predict what an outfielder is going to do on ball near or on the line that is also near or on the third baseline seats. Many feel that this had something to do with Cuzzi screwing up that foul/fair call on the Twins.

Secondly, it alters some of the responsiblities and mechanics of the four man sytem. The tag up call at third that McClelland stepped on normally, in that situation, would have belonged to the plate umpire.

Six man pretty much just serves as a way to get more umpires involved in post season. With the way ML umps share the post season pie, there really is no reason for that either.

All that said, you can bet that the union won't surrender six man without getting something for it...like the five man rotation they've proposed.

Although most of my work in HS is two man, I do three man in my college games and summer Legion.

I work four man in HS state tournament games, Legion and legion play offs.

Jim Evans once said that three man remains the best system in umpiring. (Many don't realize that ML hasn't always used four umpires.* I happen to share his opinion. I really enjoy working as the "rabbit" (U3) in three man.

quote:

Originally posted by Emanski's Heroes:
Isn't the six man system kind of pointless now that there is replay of controversial homers? I always thought they were there to get out on homers and make sure there was no fan interference or any other funny business (you know, precisely what Rich Garcia didn't do...yeah I'm an O's fan). If they can do that with replay now, why bother with the extra umps? I could be wrong as to that being their primary purpose though.

The primary "benefit" of six man is to always have four umpires covering the infield. U5 and U6 go out on trouble balls. The issue of boundary calls also is a major consideration. But experience is showing us that the two additional umpires aren't always an asset in that area.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by coach2709:
Although most of my work in HS is two man, I do three man in my college games and summer Legion.

I work four man in HS state tournament games, Legion and legion play offs.

Jim Evans once said that three man remains the best system in umpiring. (Many don't realize that ML hasn't always used four umpires.* I happen to share his opinion. I really enjoy working as the "rabbit" (U3) in three man.

this is the same for me....although I do far more 2 man games than all others, I prefer 3 man. I believe it gives you the best coverage....

now that being said, I would rather work a 2 man game with a qualified partner than with a 3 or 4 man crew if those partners are not fundamentally familiar with the coverages because they seldom work the system.

and pregame is not the time to teach it.....

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

Jim Evans once said that three man remains the best system in umpiring. (Many don't realize that ML hasn't always used four umpires.* I happen to share his opinion. I really enjoy working as the "rabbit" (U3) in three man.

Me too. U3 is anything but "the chair" it used to be called.

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

Jim Evans once said that three man remains the best system in umpiring. (Many don't realize that ML hasn't always used four umpires.* I happen to share his opinion. I really enjoy working as the "rabbit" (U3) in three man.

Me too. U3 is anything but "the chair" it used to be called.

U3 being labeled at the "chair" began, appropriately, in four man and was carried over by some to three man. Some areas do not have that reference in threeman.