quote:

Originally posted by Krakatoa:
False Hope Update: After two semi-successful nights using BreatheRight strips, the third night took it all back to square one -- snored like a freight train. Wife went out and bought a new futon to throw down in the study.........oh well.......

not surprised since most snoring has to do with constriction and vibrations caused by tissue nd structures in the upper airway(ie palate, tongue, uvula). Also, it cn be worse in certain positions, mostly supine(on your back sleeping).

Now, why dont you stop with the TV "solutions" and go visit the doc? good grief!- what is next?

the highly touted anti-snoring spray?

good luck! I am here if you need me for anything!

K Complex- (the artist(poster) formerly known as Southpaw Son

Check with your doctor about the Pillar Procedure. It's a simple procedure that is done in the office in minutes. It helped me...still need to lose a little weight to eliminate snoring completely but it helped a lot. They put little pillars under the skin in the back of your throat in the soft pallet area...which firms it up and keeps the air passage open better when you sleep. For the cost and pain vs results, I think it's by far the best option.

http://snoringcenter.com/at/pillar-procedure.html

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Check with your doctor about the Pillar Procedure. It's a simple procedure that is done in the office in minutes. It helped me...still need to lose a little weight to eliminate snoring completely but it helped a lot. They put little pillars under the skin in the back of your throat in the soft pallet area...which firms it up and keeps the air passage open better when you sleep. For the cost and pain vs results, I think it's by far the best option.

http://snoringcenter.com/at/pillar-procedure.html

First, I would suggest having a sleep study because the pillar surgery is only somewhat helpful for mild to moderate apnea. It does reduce snoring somewhat but you should get retested to see if your sleep has improved as well as your snoring.

Also, sometimes it is another structure such as the tongue, or tonsils that are causing the blockage.

In any event, I can only recommend that you go to an
accredited (by AASM American Academy Sleep Medicine) sleep center as there are a lot of "others" out there that will treat you but maybe not give you all the options. Like it or not, CPAP has been the gold standard for treatment. If a person cant handle Cpap, there are other alternatives such as Pillar, oral appliances, ENT surgery etc. but since each persons airway structure is different, the BOARD CERTIFIED in SLEEP MEDICINE sleep docs need to work with the patient for the right solution for that person.

Best wishes to all.

Of course a sleep study is the first step, K Complex. I was just skipping forward to one treatment option that is fairly new and not that many people, let alone doctors, are aware of. And, results have been very positive. But it's clearly not a cure all. Optimal weight is important and another thing people don't talk alot about is avoiding alcohol 3 hours prior to bed.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Of course a sleep study is the first step, K Complex. I was just skipping forward to one treatment option that is fairly new and not that many people, let alone doctors, are aware of. And, results have been very positive. But it's clearly not a cure all. Optimal weight is important and another thing people don't talk alot about is avoiding alcohol 3 hours prior to bed.

Tx- glad to see you agree that a sleep study is a first step. As a coordinator of a sleep center for 10 years, I also agree that most primary docs need a lot of education as to asking about a person's sleep habits, problems, etc.

I believe from my readings/research that the pillar procedure is somewhat successful for snoring but may not do a great job on apnea/better sleep.

Weight loss is also helpful in reducing snoring, apnea. But again, most times, it still will only reduce the problem rather than eliminate it.

Pillar surgery may help a snorer who has no daytime sleepiness problems, but if you do have daytime sleepiness, it could possibly resolve only the snoring while still doing nothing for the apnea.

As far as alcohol usage, it causes increased snoring by relaxing the tissues in the airway and causing additional blockage. This is also true for some meds that folks take.

If your snoring has been reduced, and you are not sleepy during the day, or driving drowsy, then that seems to be good in your case-but our docs would recommend a sleep study before, and after the surgery, to verify objectively that there is indeed improvement from your first night's (Pre-surgery) sleep test.

Unfortunately, many folks are just "happy that the spouse is happy" with a decrease in snoring, and they never get the retest done after the fact.

I believe that they are sometimes fearful of what the actual retest would reveal as far as sleep improvement with repect to incidence of apnea (albeit with "lesser snoring") I think a good doctor doing the pillar would recommend the second test also to verify improvement.

If the apnea continues even with less noise, it puts an additional load on the heart each and every night.

So.... New Years Eve... must have been some loud snoring last night for many!

Good Luck Tx - and happy new year!

Update on my son:
He had his followup doc visit yesterday, 16 days post-op. His soreness is gone, and his throat is almost fully healed. The doc took a look and said he is very confident that we did the right thing.

He asked my son if his sleep had improved. Couldn't really answer since it is still Christmas break and his sleep hours have been very irregular. School starts again Monday so we'll get a better sense soon.

But it looks good!

Rob K

sounds real good so far!

Now , remember, he stiil may be sleepy when school starts due to the early start time for schools verses the normal teen circadian clock.

Teens tend to have a hard time going to bed early due to a shift in their circadian rhytmn and then the school schedule demands waking up before they biologically should.

Some schools in Minnesota and Connecticut have shifted the HS'ers to a later start time by an hour or so and found that there is better test scores and less behavior problems.

Opponents had said it would disrupt sports, work etc.

But I believe they were able to work it out in these school districts and the last I heard it was a benefit

Anyway, Happy New Year, -all my best to your son, and I am here if you need to PM about anything.

Hey K: Thanks for your advice and your thoughts.

You are so right about teens and early mornings. In fact, we decided this year, since Jeff was having the sleep issue and since he is a senior, that he should schedule "late arrival," which means no first period class each day. So his first class insn't until 9:30 am.

That in and of itself certainly helped his mood and classroom sleepiness, and now with the surgery, we hope it gets better still.

Thanks again!

Rob, that's good news!

Sleep Study: imagine going to a sleep study center in Korea somewhere and being away from all that is familiar and trying to sleep.......I can't see it. I'd be freaked out, even after being here so long. The language, the cultural variances, being 'the foreigner' checking in for a situation like that with all of the drawing stares and the usual sense of feeling like you're a zoo animal.........not gonna happen here. Maybe when I get back home over this coming summer......but not here. No way. No how. I checked to see if our Army hosp offers anything....nope. Sometimes I hate living here.

Krak...would you rather hate living there or hate DYING THERE???

Please get this checked out!

Krak,

I've been following this thread loosely.

Your post reminds me of myself.

Hunting every excuse available to avoid having to do the test.

Too expensive. It takes too long. I don't have time. My deductible is too high. It's a BS deal. It's just a money maker for a sleep center. I wouldn't be able to sleep in a strange place. Don't want to feel like a zoo animal. It was too freaky for me. Maybe after I get caught up. Don't want to have to deal with a machine every night. It's ugly. I'll try the Breathe Right strips.

If I was in Korea, I would have used that too.

Still not able to get my BP under control, my female physician, said, "Would you please have a sleep study done. I'll make the appointment with a center that I am familiar with. We can get them to do a split night study where they test for the first half of the night and then you wear the mask for the last half. That will save you some time and money."

After fighting, BP issues for a few years, and, igoring my docs advice to have a sleep study, I finally did.

The young tech was not bad looking. I got to keep most of my clothes on. Like to never have gone to sleep. "You probably have sleep apnea", before I ever got my shirt off. I felt like a chimp in a Mercury capsule with more than 100 sensors attached.

Slept about an hour in the test. About two hours with the mask. Woke up about 6. She had the BP cuff on me before I could ever get awake.

"Your BP is 120/80."

I hadn't felt that good after a night's sleep in many years, much less just two hours.

The lack of good sleep affects every facet of your body's systems including aching legs because your heart can't get enought oxygen down to your feet.

No headaches when you wake up.

Maybe your Army hosp can make a referral to a local sleep study center near you.

It'll take you some time to get the right mask and machine. They'll work with you.

Your wife will be appreciative of no more snoring.

But, you can f a r t at will, and, truly mean that you can't smell a thing.

The bad news is that if you have it and don't get it treated, it will kill you.

Krak? ( Krak grabs shoe to throw at K COMPLEX here! )

Since you can't get to them, we are bringing them to you!

What are you doing March 25th?

http://www.touchrespiratorydisease.com/events.cfm?level=2&event_id=5240

Will she be my nurse?

Getting in on the end of this, but a word to the wise, listen to everyone and have the study done. It is a very serious condition that I have lived with since I was a child and never did anything about it until my 20's. Did the sleep study and wound up on cpap. They wanted to do surgery but I wasn't comfortable with that because it involved taking out part of my hip bone and rebuilding my chin. My life and days are alot better because of the sleep study and cpap.

It isn't snoring, it is your body not having air and your body struggling to take it in. I knew mine was serious when I went on a fishing trip and woke up to my roommate sitting on top of my chest doing cpr because after the "snoring" I didn't make a sound or take a breath for awhile. He thought I was dying and might well have been.

My doctor told me that he felt sorry for me because he knew I must be miserable as I had one of the worst cases he had ever seen in terms of waking up/stop breathing per hour.

Hopefully it will help and you will be better! I am glad I took my wife and fishing friends advice and sought help.

Update: I have put in a leave request at work for four days so that I can fly to San Antonio and go through the diagnostics required to determine sleep apnea and/or other problems. Sleep Apnea Labs of San Antonio. Being in my own country and near my son would make it a lot easier and more comfortable than the weirdness of trying to do this in a Korean sleep disorders clinic.

What about insurance? I have BC/BS, and assume it would be covered under diagnostic testing. I looked all through my benefits guidebook and it sure seems this would be covered, maybe even the CPAP if that's the way it ends up going. Anyone know about how health insurers look at sleep apnea diagnosis?

Krak,
That's a wise decision you've arrived at, and killing two birds ain't bad either.
K Complex probably has more insight to this, but my guess is you'll be covered. I have a decent health plan, not as comprehensive as BC/BS, but it did pay for the study and the CPAP. Of course there will be co-pays. The biggest co-pay was on the machine- I think I had to shell out about $150. The nice thing about BC/BS is it allows you to go out of network without penalty. You should be able to get a firm answer with a phone call to a BC/BS rep.

Krak- Glad to hear you are getting this checked out.

I have seen too much and it is frustrating when you think what could have prevented some problems was such an easy solution.

As for insurance, spizzle hit it right on the head, BC/BS are good about coverage and it should end up as co-pay and deductible for testing.

Please contact me if there is anything at all I can do.

- and treat me nice out here on the boards, cause I got sleep friends out there in TX!- - you wouldnt want to wake up in the morning holding a "LETS GO METS" banner!

I am really happy to hear this news my friend!

As for insurance coverage---a lot depends on who you have as a carrier---mine paid 100% for the test and most of the machine cost

Interesting aspect---I no longer need the machine and my wife says I no longer stop breathing---I was at better than 90 stops in an hour---and my snoring has minimalized---losing weight and cutting back on the Scotch before during the evening did the trick

Weird thing---I spent two separate weeklong stints in Yale New Haven's Stroke center being monitored and they never picked up on it---went up to Mass General to see the Head of their Stroke Center and he picked up on it immediately just from the way I breathed while sitting there talking to him

The human body, especially the brain functions, can be very strange and different for each of us

Yay, my boss has approved the stateside leave. I was worried about that. Now, in addition to the medical aspects of the trip, I'll be able to hopefulluy grab a game or two. Or is it that I'm going to watch some baseball and have a medical visit tagged on?

*sorry to enter the men's room* (did that for real one time at an airport and nearly died with embarrassment!)

Krak-I'm glad you are making the big effort to do this. I can't imagine that BCBS would deny this but I would call the # on the back of the card and make sure you don't have to have any pre-authorization. Better to have all your bases covered (ha!) than to be burned with a huge bill. Good luck and hope you have a good time visiting the states!