My advice for the HS baseball player who reads this: There are so many variables in finding the right college fit, from program, coaches, academic majors, environment, community, etc., that you want to have as many choices as possible to dial that in and not have to make compromises you're uncomfortable with. That means focus on getting good grades, even if you don't like school that much. Just know that for every 'C' that you get, that's the sound of a door to an opportunity slamming shut ... at the end of the day ask yourself was hanging out with your friends and not studying for that test worth it in the bigger picture? The only person whose future gets hurt is yours, so make choices that help you. Some of you may hate school work, but if baseball is your true passion understand that the path is paved by good grades ... that's just the reality of how it works in our ultra-competitive world, so either embrace it or find yourself kicking your own arse when you're 30 and wake up to realize your own casual attitude towards grades when you were 16 only hurt yourself and set you down a path you wished you hadn't travelled.

Which future do you want to wake up in?

quote:

Never compare football recruitng to baseball recruiting! With 80 scholarships vs. 11.7, baseball coaches have to be more careful.

The bigger issue is the differece between Head Count versus Equivalency sports.
The D1A football program awards only full ride (true full ride-tuition, fees, room/board, books) scholarships where the baseball program awards only percentages other than in extremely rare instances.

The one thing I rarely hear being discussed in these threads is the issue of grades and their impact on the affordability of a school.
All of the points being made regarding academic performance and a recruits potential attractiveness to a coach are very valid. Certainly the new academic reforms make it even more risky for a coach to recruit a player who is an academic risk. In addition, the player may be Pujols-esque, but he's useless if he's academically ineligible.
Always keep in mind that for many families, the bottom line cost of attendance is a limiting factor in the college choice. If a player is being recruited at an out of state program or a private school, a 50% baseball scholy probably leaves mom and dad on the hook for $10,000 to $20,000 per year in costs.
Academics can be huge as a means of eating into this cost. For example, many states have a waiver of out of state tuition based on academics ( normally around 3.5 GPA). In many/most instances, this academic money may be more than the baseball money. Academic moneys will usually kick in in the 3.0-3.2 range, and SAT/ACT scores come into play as well when determining whether academic money can be succesfully blended with athletic funds.

Exactly, rbi. Cost is a major factor for many. But some - granted, not all - NAIA & private D3's aren't super-expensive and offer great academic 'ships. Others are just incredibly expensive no matter what.

At some, academics can get you a 75% ride (tuition, room & board) or even a full ride.

quote:

Originally posted by pbonesteele:
My advice for the HS baseball player who reads this: There are so many variables in finding the right college fit, from program, coaches, academic majors, environment, community, etc., that you want to have as many choices as possible to dial that in and not have to make compromises you're uncomfortable with. That means focus on getting good grades, even if you don't like school that much. Just know that for every 'C' that you get, that's the sound of a door to an opportunity slamming shut ... at the end of the day ask yourself was hanging out with your friends and not studying for that test worth it in the bigger picture? The only person whose future gets hurt is yours, so make choices that help you. Some of you may hate school work, but if baseball is your true passion understand that the path is paved by good grades ... that's just the reality of how it works in our ultra-competitive world, so either embrace it or find yourself kicking your own arse when you're 30 and wake up to realize your own casual attitude towards grades when you were 16 only hurt yourself and set you down a path you wished you hadn't travelled.

Which future do you want to wake up in?

This is one of the best posts I have seen - shared it with my soph and he agreed - I might post this on his wall...nicely said!!!!!

Grades are of the utmost importance. With so few schoalrships and so many players, schools will just not risk losing a player to academic ineligibility unless he is a monster. And if that is the case, he'll most likely be drafted out of HS anyway.

A P throwing mid 80's is not a stud. He is very average at the D1 level. I know he's a soph. in HS right now, but it's a real big jump from 86-87 to 90-91. Alot of people say "He throws 86" when he really throws 82-83 and touches 86 once or twice a game.

Bottom line-have him study.

This is such a great thread, including the post above by pbonesteele, that a member requested we make it more noticeable. (Thanks, catcher09!)

I agree, and I am linking it in the Golden Threads forum as well as the Players Only.

Julie

First let me preface this (and my sons will attest), I expected my sons to do their very best in the the classtroom, and always stressed getting good grades. But the realities of the world are a bit different for the "Athletes" out there.

I look at this from a little different angle, seeing how I was a Very good student myself and played a collegiate sport, but wasn't the STUD, and knew nothing of recruiting back then... and so was only an invited walk-on, with a small academic grant. Where another player on my team, with barely average grades, had close to a full ride, and after two years I ended up playing ahead of him. That's when you learn life isn't always fair. (but hard work helps even things out)

So my perspective is a little different, as my son is also a TOP student. But when the rubber hit the road, and scholarships were being handed out... and school choices being made. It was his ability to swing a bat that made the difference... not his grades. There were several schools that were recruitng my son, which made offers to players who could not qualify for the publically proclaimed academic standards of the school. I became disillusioned... It was if my son's hard work to get good grades meant nothing, in the process. And in the end it was his athletic ability that allowed him to attend the school he eventually chose. (Of course he wouldn't be there if his grades were all Cs)

I have yet to see any college, not REDUCE their academic requirements for an athlete and that includes IVY leagues and other top schools in the country... The same student without top athletic ability would never have a chance at being accepted. I've also seen very high end top notch students get rejected from the same or similar universites. These students had better than 4.0 GPAs and high SAT scores. (I know of several that did not get accpeted at THEIR 1st choice school)

A perfect "PUBLICIZED" example can be read in the book "Moneyball" Billy Beane.... Got Scholarship offered and acceptance to attend Stanford and to play baseball, but signed a pro contract and became NCAA inlegible and then tried to go back and take classes at Stanford, and was told his acceptance was withdrawn... (see pg 13)

So while grades are important... and give you some choices... I wouldn't say "utmost", AND.... IF you really want a lot of choices become that STUD athlete,... coaches find a way. (but it is easier on them if you have good grades)

From everything that I learned when my son went through the recruiting process, Grades come first.

That does not mean their aren't some baseball "*****s" out there. I couldn't believe it when I saw a kid that we know being signed by one of our local D1 programs. This kid in his junior year had a 1.X GPA and was kicked off his HS team for academic reasons. Yet he was signed last week by a top 25 D1 program.

I hope that the NLI was contingent upon this kid passing his classes this year, otherwise I may have to change my belief system.

The NLI is contingent upon the player being admitted to the school as well as being eligible with the Clearinghouse

ILVBB-shame on the school, shame on the parents.

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
ILVBB-shame on the school, shame on the parents.

Way off topic, but forgive me. I know a kid who was charged with rape of a 14 year old girl, after he signed and before he graduated. He lost his scholly at school X. He plead nolo contendre to a lesser charge got 4 years probation and signed with another top 25 program.

Shame on that school too.

Grades....most important. My kid was not going to be an athlete unless he got the grades....and yes, we let him know we meant it in 6th grade.....school first...we refused to sign him up for Little League because he had received a C in spelling.... no way were we going to be apologizing to him in later life because when raising him we didn't put the emphasis on education....what would we say to him..."Well,we thought you were going to be a professional ball player....."

I know there are kids with special needs, and that is a seperate situation. Think though...that for the majority....we, as parents, need to establish priorities....and for us it made sense to put grades first....

Let's not fool ourselves. We all know it's about winning games and bringing in the almighty dollar.

quote:

Let's not fool ourselves. We all know it's about winning games and bringing in the almighty dollar.

Here's a reality check. For every player like SDBB's son, ( who I consider to be a pretty elite talent) there are thousands of players who will not be heavily courted, and will have to use every means possible to find a fit in college baseball. One of the separators is academics, as good grades not only provide a cushion for the coaching staff, but they help soften the economic blow for mom and dad in the world of equivalency sports.
And no, in fact its rarely about "the almighty dollar", as the percentage of college baseball programs that are self sustaining economically barely register a blip on the radar screen.
If you think your son will play at a D1 program, he'd better have skills for sure. But chances are he'll blend into the landscape that is amateur baseball, a solid player with perhaps above average tools. He'll more than likely have to scrap and battle to get an opportunity to not only find a home, but to get on the field. Above average grades can become an ancillary tool in this process.

uhhh im not sure if someone answered this becuase im in a hurry and i didnt have time to read everything. im a freshman in highschool, and we just got our mid terms. my average is %73 and i am in all academic courses. would this be even considered for a D1 or D2 school. i probly wont ever be D1 material but i was just wondering what it compares too.

I'm not at all about not stressing GRADES First. But I'm telling you the reality I found in College recruiting. And as I mentioned I was disillusioned. Perhaps is was my perception, but this is what I felt from the experiences my son went thru in the recruiting arena. His grades were secondary. As long as he could meet a minimum level, (which all students typcially have to meet to be accepted) that's all coaches worried about... So anything above that minimum level, had very little additional value.... I was befuddled.

I found that only the ELITE schools required grades above the minimum. And even they reduced their Normal standards for athletes.
Take a look at the fine print of the entrance requirements at several schools Here's one for example from a TOP 25 rated academic school.

quote:

We are also very interested in your personal development and background, and we use these elements from the application to increase our understanding of you as a whole person. Consequently, the personal statement forms an integral part of our review process.We consider:

cut...
Exceptional achievements, such as recognition for special talents or extracurricular activities.

This is from an actual application... and is the way coaches can get students with sub-standard grades into the college

I'm not saying that is right, but that is what I experienced.

For Canadiankid07

Is 73% considered ELITE...????
Are your athletic abilities considered ELITE??

One or the other has to be... in order to have all the options you need to get to the college of your choice. You decide, what you can best accomplish. Better if its both. But do realize, which one might eventually affect your ability to get a job in your future...

That's the bottom line.

For your information, I'm discussing RECRUITING.. and I'm talking about VERY GOOD athletes, ELITE, The ones I'm thinking of... over 70% were drafted by an MLB team, 7 of them have earned over a million dollars because of their sports talent in the last 5-7 years. A few more have recieved 6 digit bonuses. Several more have earned scholarships to various schools, with the possiblity of making money via their sports skills in the future. I'm talking top line athletes. Some of which chose to go straight to the pros, and forego school, some didn't. Some... their baseball careers are now over, but they have or are close to a college degree. Some their baseball careers are over and they have no degree, and right now a minimal job. But all are/were very talented in at least one area.

College is a privilege and takes hard work, dedication and skill to realize that privilege.

All I'm saying is in the recruitng arena, and eventual scholarship awards, TOP athletes get more PRIVILEGES than top students... and if you are an average student you had better be one of those ELITE athletes if you want to go to the college of your choice.

Were you privy to the decision making process these athletes underwent? As far as the decision whether to go to college or accept a pro offer? Was it all money driven, or did some accept lower bonuses and decided to play pro because that was their ultimate dream and goal? I have an '08 that is getting noticed. And of course we are very early, he is young, and the communication is very limited. Nonetheless we may be faced with the decision of college or pro and I don't understand how best to advise him.

Please allow me to make a point on why grades can be a positive involving baseball players.

In Florida if a player's grades are a 3.0 and a 970 on the SAT or 20 on the ACT any student can get 75 percent tuition paid for yearly. If they have a 3.5 GPA and a 1270 they get 100 percent tuition paid for yearly.

Almost all Florida public schools take this into account when offering scholarship money to in-state players. This money does not count against the 11.7 baseball scholarships the school offers. Many other states have simular programs to Florida.

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:OHrfLKeuqGIJ:www.f...n&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

However, the NCAA also allows something called stacking. If a player's grades are at least a 3.5 or a 1250 on the SAT (I'm not sure on this number) colleges can combine academic and athletic scholarships and the academic numbers do not count against their baseball numbers.

For example, someone has a 3.2 GPA and a 980 on the SAT. They get $5,000 baseball money and $7,000 academic money. All $12,000 counts against the baseball team. In many cases the baseball team cannot allow that as they have given all their monies out (it would put them over the 11.7 limit) and will tell the player to pick one or the other - in this case probably the academic money. That same player who has a 3.6 GPA can get the entire $12,000.

When someone talk about receiving a "full scholarship" it usually combines academics and athletics - not just baseball. So good grades can get you more college money in the long run.

Hopefully, this helps people understand the importance of grades in the NCAA. having said that I can totally understand why some people would be disillusioned when 2.2 GPAs get into Top 25 schools and non-athletes with 4.0s can't get into those same schools.