I scrolled down looking for a previous discussion on this subject. Simply put, is the start of junior year of HS too late to achieve good grades? Meaning that if a prospective college player was a straight C student (with a B or two in the mix) in 9th and 10th grade, but achieves B+ to A his junior and senior years, will this get it done to get accepted to a D1/D2/D3 school? If he does well on SAT/ACT how much bearing will his mediocre 9th and 10th grades have?

Just trying to paint a realistic picture for son who did not take it seriously until now. Thanks for any input.

A couple of things are in the picture here and they are things that college admissions people and coaches see

01--the low grades in the first two years of HS indicate that the young man possibly did not work up to his capabilities

02-- by doing well in the final two years it shows that the boy was definitely just lazy in the first two years and has the ability to be a good student

03-- the final two years of good grades won't make him an A studentif he was a C studnet in the first two years

04-- Solid SAT/ACT scores will help to show he was just lazy in the beginning

05-- Your son is no different than many HS students. We see this in more players than you would imagine. I like to term student athletes like your son as a normal HS student

If it helps you any my son and my stepson were very similar to your boy and ended up playing college baseball


Trust me all is not lost especially if he has "finally seen the light".

Great question:

It's not uncommon, particular in boys to not take HS seriously those first 2 years. Colleges will weigh the junior/senior year grades heavier than they freshman/sophomore years, because they know that too.

While it might make it harder to get into Sanford or Yale, most colleges won't have much trouble. I know from experience. While my youngest was an over-achiever in HS, his older brother didn't "get it" until his junior year. He's now in a Masters program at George Washington.

The SAT will be very important to him in order to make it as a qualifier and also to prove to schools that the lower grades are more of an aberation than an indication of lower performance. He needs to demonstrate his potential, so have him really bear down.

But getting accepted with a good SAT score and good grades his last two years of high school isn't difficult. There are a shortage of male applicants at many colleges, particularly liberal arts colleges.

The student in this situation is unlikely to have an impressive overall GPA. Since most college questionnaires, showcase profiles, etc., only show the cumulative GPA, how does the student athlete avoid the situation where a coach disqualifies him as an admissions risk before getting the whole story.

Another question: Is the student athlete with the low overall GPA better off if he leaves the GPA line blank on showcase applications?

Assuming your son is a projectable college player, good SAT scores will counter balance a mediocre GPA for most D1, D2, D3 or NAIA colleges. To understand what "good" means, look at the websites of the colleges you are interested in to see the average SAT scores of entering freshmen. To see where your son is now, look at the conversion chart after he takes the PSAT this year.

The only thing that will make a difference in Senior year is the first semester, as in most cases the application is in by January. However, I would advise him to keep up his grades to "show" he is serious about school in order to support your "story" that he "got serious" as he hit his Junior year.

quote:

The only thing that will make a difference in Senior year is the first semester, as in most cases the application is in by January.

And if the player is a highly-sought-after recruit (i.e., early signee material), his transcript will be requested during the summer after his junior year.

Thank you for the positive response and feedback.

He has some work to do, but at least now I can reassure him that provided he does his part, it can happen.

The good news is that he approached me for help and guidance. This comes after hearing of a player who had his offer retracted from a D1 school after learning that the player failed a class. He also was told by a couple of alumni players that the reason they are playing at a local CC is due to grades. Not that playing at a CC is a bad thing, but these guys were being courted and could have easily played at a high level. So I guess hearing it from a "peer" so to speak got his attention.

Thanks again.

cny2010....you might want to also look into ways to prepare him for the SAT or ACT....among those are test prep classes, study guides, dvd's, etc.

google SAT or ACT test prep resources. some kids will take the SAT and ACT multiple times. With ACT, he can submit his highest test score only. ACT has a website as well. info. on the SAT is at the collegeboard website.

as a junior this year he'll also be eligible to take the PSAT. look into preparing him for this test as well.

It is NEVER too late to work hard and raise grades.

1. Many colleges do not consider freshman year grades in their application process. Also, many do not consider senior year grades, but that does not mean that you can fail a class (or even get a D) in your senior year - schollys will likely be revoked if you do.
2. Yes, take the PSAT (as prep only really), and then find some SAT/ACT test prep courses to prepare for SAT/ACT. Take these standardized tests more than once. Odds are you will improve with your second or third testing. You likely will NOT improve if you go beyond three (maybe four) test sessions. Also, if you score similarly (or better) on consecutive tests, it shows the college consistency - something they like to see - that your "one good score" was not a fluke.
3. Colleges consider grades first, then SAT/ACT scores. Weaker grades can be interpreted as not applying oneself, but a continued/sustained upward grade trend is always a positive to a college. Tutoring for the SAT/ACT should tell you which test you will do better in - they are not the same - and then focus on that test (either SAT or ACT).
4. What level of courses will be taken? It is also always a positive to show an increase in level of course difficulty over the years.

Mediocre grades can and should be increased. The student may not be an applicant for an Ivy, but there are many schools out there that recognize the effort to increase grades.

The ACT allows you to pick and choose scores - so you can send only your best ACT score.

The SAT will be changing to the pick and chose reporting in 2010 - but for the 2009, they will send all of your scores.

Something that is talked about on the college admissions boards is the idea of taking both the ACT and the SAT - but DON'T send the test scores to the colleges using the free "send a score" that you sign up for at the time of registration. Instead, wait until you see which one is better and only send that one.

It seems that the last couple of years in FLorida it is getting harder and harder to get into schools. U of FLorida has an average admissions GPA of 3.5+. (consider the top football recruits ave GPA's this puts the rest of students quite high!)
So if the player is a stud they will be OK but boy the competetiveness just to get in these top schools is getting very tough. UCF (Central Florida), Florida State, U of South FLorida and UF are tough.

this would also be a good time cny2010 to review the ncaa guide for the college-bound student-athlete (there's a link to it found at the ncaa website). once in the guide, there's a link to approved core courses found at the ncaaclearinghouse.net website. review those to see if your son is on track or needs to adjust his course selections for junior and senior year. consider taking accelerated courses and AP courses as that may help with admissions decisions. maybe the added challenge of AP and accelerated courses is what he needs?

Not only does taking the PSAT provide practice for the SAT but it also provides the chance to enter the competition for National Merit Scholarship Corportion scholarships.

08dad, thanks for the heads up about SAT and score choice. hadn't heard that yet. good advice about not sending test scores using the "free send a score."

cny2010 - look into the SAT subject tests as some colleges will require that those be taken during high school.....2 or 3 of those sometimes. collegeboard.com has info. on the subject tests and which colleges require those.

cny2010.......it's a matter of getting his ducks in a row now. imho, it's not too late. it's good that he's getting on track. good luck !

fsmjr - good point. it's possible many of the state schools will see increased applications because of the concerns over the economy and the high gas prices, etc. more kids staying closer to home, concerns about the rising costs of college, loan program changes, etc.

True, the PSAT (when taken in Jr year - you can take it in soph year too, but it doesn't count) is the NMSQT qualifier, but it is very tough to make that level. Further, the score cut offs are different for each state.

Yes, if you are taking both SAT and ACT (good idea to try both), don't sign up to automatically send scores. Wait, and then send only the ACT if it is a better score - as you only have to send one ACT (whereas SAT once sent, sends all scores of all tests taken, including subject tests). Oh, and before you sign up for the ACT, make sure the colleges you are interested in require or don't require the writing portion of the ACT. It is optional with the ACT, not optional with the SAT.

There are only two colleges that I know of that still require 3 subject tests - Princeton and Harvard. Many others require 2, many don't require any. Please make sure you get them all in timely - last tests to take are around November (maybe some in Dec.) to of senior year. And you can only take up to 3 subject tests at one testing. If you are a good multiple choice test taker, it is a good idea to pick 3 for the sitting. Even if the college to which you are applying only needs 2, it will take your best 2 of the 3.

I suggest you look at Princeton Review on line. It has a ton of information about each and every college. Their avg GPA ranges, avg SAT/ACT ranges, majors, general information on admissions and what things the colleges rank as important for admissions, etc. Very useful tool.

no11 - thanks for the info on the subject tests and getting those in by november or december.

another good online resource is petersons.com

fiske guide is available at bookstores and gives lots of good info. too.

The Clearinghosue list of core classes means nothing if your HS does not offer them and many high schools do not---There is a code(pin) number for every HS that will get you to a page with your sons school and their list of core classes--make sure they agree with the Clearinghouse


Also keep in mind that the Clearinghouse list of classes does necessarily correspond to the classes that are required at the school you want to attend---the Clearinghouse list is just for being certified to play a sport not to get you into the school of your choice

One trap concerns years of language taken-- read this carefully in the Clearinghouse listing and then check the school your son is intereste in--you might be in for a shock

For those of you who have players who are a little younger, one thing I learned through the process is to take the subject tests as the student goes along. For example, my daughter took AP World History as a sophomore - and she took the SAT World History Subject test that year as well. Most people - me included - thought of the SAT Subject tests as being something you took after the SATs. The time to take them is when the material is fresh in your mind. If you take American Lit as a Junior - take that test in the spring of your Junior year. Waiting to take them until the end is a mistake.

google search to find the common data set for the colleges of interest. some are available. you can glean a lot of information from this data as well as incoming class profiles.

once you find the common data set.......go to item C5 "Distribution of high school units required and/or recommended." as mentioned earlier......it's here that you can see how many units of foreign language, science, english, mathematics, social studies, etc. are required or recommended for that particular college. requirements/recommendations vary from college to college.

cny2010 - maybe a good place to start is to look up the common data set and incoming class profiles for the flagship university in your state and then go from there. include some private colleges in your research as well.

in looking at data for several colleges, i noticed that some provide the C5 response and some do not.

08dad - good advice about the subject test schedule.

Holy Cow! My son (my first and only child) will be a freshman next month. Will his counselor tell me all of this info you all have written? I think I should print out this page and keep it handy. I had no idea...

Our GC had no clue about many things.

I think that is the big message I would have for anyone coming through now is that ultimately as parents, we need to be working with our kids to manage this process.

GC are a resource - as is HSBBW but we (parents and kids) have to be the owners.

quote:

Originally posted by btbballfannumber1:
google search to find the common data set for the colleges of interest. some are available. you can glean a lot of information from this data as well as incoming class profiles.


08dad - good advice about the subject test schedule. we didn't know anything about subject tests until late in the process and by that time, my oldest didn't take them since her plate was full. after taking the SAT and ACT multiple times, she had no interest in taking any subject tests. can only recall an ivy asst. making a specific request for the subject tests to be taken. with son, we'll try to get some subject tests taken at earlier dates now that we know.

d did take the ACT Plus w/writing and that was accepted by some colleges in lieu of the SAT. best to check with the college to see what tests they require.

Great advice about the common data set - really helpful information can be found there. Here is a link to many of the data sets...

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-sele...posted-colleges.html


Regarding what test to take - what I suggest is to take both in the fall of your Junior year. You can't know in this baseball recruiting process where the journey will take you - and what scores will be useful.