UNC Signees Finalize Decisions

As Friday's MLB Draft signing deadline passed, six of North Carolina's 10 signees have signed contracts and will therefore not enroll at UNC.

What do you expect a college coach to do when this kind of risk exists?

.

Could you see a scenerio where any players comning into high end programs would be told that as soon as your draft year comes up you either sign or lose your $?

Would give the program some numbers certainty. And from the standpoint of the high end schools, either you star by your draft year or we have to keep the pipeline going and bring in new talent...

44
.

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
.

Could you see a scenerio where any players comning into high end programs would be told that as soon as your draft year comes up you either sign or lose your $?

Happens quite often. Not only are they told they lose their $$ but in the past it was if you don't get drafted you need to transfer.

Infidel brings up good points and this is why coaches often over recruit, sometimes even spending money of those new recruits that they feel most likely WILL never set foot on campus.

Sorry about the all caps in my prior message. I was just being lazy -- no offense intended.

No offense taken, Maven. It's just that it can be hard on the "ears"...
Well, the signing deadline is behind us and UGA will welcome 5 of 8 recruits who, though drafted, chose not to sign. Add to this the return of Holder, who also elected to return, and it becomes clear that there is still some juggling to be done with the UGA roster. I can understand the predicament for the coaching staff, my point is that this is not new. When we went thru the college recruiting process, we knew, and anyone who did their homework knew what the deal was with teams like this. It's hard, I know, but you should know what you're signing up for.

Va Sportsmom,

We knew exactly what we were signing up for -- and got exactly what we wanted. In the end, we narrowed the choices from 11 to 1 for many reasons. Really, it's not that hard if the player has a set of clearly defined goals (write them down) at the start of the process. Each week, re-rank the schools based on new info.

We did our homework, set criteria (playing time, roster turnover, recruiting history, academic performance, coaches philosophy, etc), did research before engaging the college and asked the hard questions of coaches right up front. (If they take offense or bully, drop them, move on.) Take the emotion out of the decision process (as much as possible) -- make it fact-based. Type at the top of the criteria list "This is Your Decision".

BTW, the UGA coaches answers were vague, unacceptable, defensive -- so we moved on, pronto. Signed early with another outstanding D-1 program with great athletics, academics, honest coaches with candid answers and philosophy consistent with our criteria. There are many good programs with these characteristics; but it is up to the players to find them through their own interaction.

Just because the over-recruiting problem is not new does not make it acceptable; I have no sympathy for coaches with unethical practices (eg, signing 23 frosh NLIs knowing that even if the expected draftees go pro, that 20 more players than NCAA allows will show up); when it is the players who suffer the most severe consequences (transfer rule, no scholly, out of the recruiting market due to NLI, etc).

I agree wholeheartedly that parents must help their sons understand the process. The recruiting process is one of the first player initiations into adulthood -- learning that some adults in positions of authority will use their positions to their own advantage without regard to consequences of others -- especially those who are not as knowledgeable (to your point) or have an unfounded deference to persons in authority. Players should be taught to "man-up", stand tall, look the coaches in the eye and ask tough questions of coaches, no fear, insist on answers (even ones they don't want to hear) and then make the decisions that are in their own best interests.

And then don't look back. In life, the saddest phrase that can be said is "If only ...".

No sympathy is warranted for coaches who practice overrecruitment. We must get the NCAA to do something about this. More scholly slots/money/honesty.

Now I fully expect to hear from posters who will argue these things are way too much to ask.

I am pne of them who doesn't understand why you call it unethical when there is no rule or even guide line that states that a coach shall not allow walk ons and recruit enough players to cover those who may not show up. NLI guys are not cut and only NLIs are signed if BB money is given. This is one of the reasons I say money talks. I wouldn't commit my son without a large scholarship and today it is more important than ever. At least with the scholarship money you have it for 1 year and probably for 4 if you workout in the eyes of the coach. I never talked to many coaches who didn't give me the answers I wanted to hear. You can ask all the questions you like but most coaches are selling you on their program.

At UGA, NLI guys were cut before they ever hit campus. I am not sure that any of the parents of these players would say that is ethical. It puts them in a tough spot academically and athletically. And it is not just because a few guys who were drafted did not sign, they are WAY over the limit. Baseball Maven is right on target with this one, and many college coaches would agree. Some colleges get caught short a few players on their roster, but those are the chances you take by signing high profile players likely to be drafted in the first few rounds.

As someone who knows players and parents of current and former players at UGA the issue has and will continue to exist at UGA as long as Perno is there. This is a ongoing problem, in the past the kids would make it on to campus and be told prior to Spring semester to find another school to play at, usually a JUCO.

The problem with Perno is that he lacks any sense of morality or integrity. He is deceptive with his answers, he will lie to your face, and deny it at the sametime. He has some major character flaws. Some of the assistant coaching changes over the past 3 years were due to coaches not playing his game. Anyone that would like to PM me is welcome to. I am a Dawgfan and Love UGA and the players and really enjoyed this past season but the way he throws players out like trash is crazy.

He has and does reduce scholarships, lets players know that they are not in his future plans and communicates with the players minimally. If you have the opportuinty to talk to a parent of a UGA player (if they are willing to discuss) you will find that players even that are starters for the most part do not respect him and do not feel a connection with the Coach. I would say 70% would disapprove of Perno.

I am not saying this as sour grapes but so many people have touched on this, where there is smoke there is fire. There have been Highly recruited players and 6 figure drafted players that have gone to campus only to be thrown out with the trash.

He has already publicily talked about some starters from last years team maybe not playing this year. No problem with open competition, but the first time a player hears that he is not meeting the teams needs should be in a meeting with the coach and not read about it on Rivals or hear it in a radio show.

So why do kids continue to go there
1- Its Georgia
2- SEC
3- Its Georgia, campus is beautiful and for many of the kids they've dreamed of playing there.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawgfan:
As someone who knows players and parents of current and former players at UGA the issue has and will continue to exist at UGA as long as Perno is there. This is a ongoing problem, in the past the kids would make it on to campus and be told prior to Spring semester to find another school to play at, usually a JUCO.

The problem with Perno is that he lacks any sense of morality or integrity. He is deceptive with his answers, he will lie to your face, and deny it at the sametime. He has some major character flaws. Some of the assistant coaching changes over the past 3 years were due to coaches not playing his game. Anyone that would like to PM me is welcome to. I am a Dawgfan and Love UGA and the players and really enjoyed this past season but the way he throws players out like trash is crazy.

He has and does reduce scholarships, lets players know that they are not in his future plans and communicates with the players minimally. If you have the opportuinty to talk to a parent of a UGA player (if they are willing to discuss) you will find that players even that are starters for the most part do not respect him and do not feel a connection with the Coach. I would say 70% would disapprove of Perno.

I am not saying this as sour grapes but so many people have touched on this, where there is smoke there is fire. There have been Highly recruited players and 6 figure drafted players that have gone to campus only to be thrown out with the trash.

He has already publicily talked about some starters from last years team maybe not playing this year. No problem with open competition, but the first time a player hears that he is not meeting the teams needs should be in a meeting with the coach and not read about it on Rivals or hear it in a radio show.

So why do kids continue to go there
1- Its Georgia
2- SEC
3- Its Georgia, campus is beautiful and for many of the kids they've dreamed of playing there.

Dawgfan, that was very well put.

I am not disputing what you are saying but doesn't this reflect players and parents not doing their due diligence ?

Reading this thread and not knowing anything about the school, it seems that UGA may be the most egregious example of something that may be going on now, or soon will be, at a number of big time schools due in part to the new roster rules. For a player and parent, one lesson here may be to shy away from the big time schools until things settle down in a few years. A top 40 program is going to have a high number of talented players and recruits, a high degree of leverage over incoming (star struck?) players and very limited spots and scholarships available. It's a unfortunate combination of things that could result in an unusually high number of misled players (which obviously is happening at UGA now.)

quote:

Originally posted by Dawgfan:

....This is a ongoing problem, in the past the kids would make it on to campus and be told prior to Spring semester to find another school to play at, usually a JUCO.

....The problem with Perno is that he lacks any sense of morality or integrity. He is deceptive with his answers, he will lie to your face, and deny it at the sametime. He has some major character flaws.

....but the way he throws players out like trash is crazy.

....He has and does reduce scholarships, lets players know that they are not in his future plans and communicates with the players minimally.

....I would say 70% would disapprove of Perno.

....where there is smoke there is fire. There have been Highly recruited players and 6 figure drafted players that have gone to campus only to be thrown out with the trash.

Bobblehead, I think that's just it after reading the above post from Dawgfan. It appears that players and parents ARE doing their due diligence but Perno is changing lanes on them somewhere along the way. I too am a HUGE Georgia fan (college, campus, athletics, tradition, etc.) but I will be the first to admit that things aren't exactly peachy at this program. It's almost to the point where it should be "Buyer Beware" going there.

This has been going on for years at all levels of D1 colleges. It is the norm in varying degrees. There are some that don't over recruit but with walk ons you just don't know. College ball is a tough way yo go and you are always on the bubble depending on performance.
It has been a topic many didn't want to face. We have had threads for at least 3 years here on this site that I know of. Every year is a new crop of players and a new challenge. Most teams lose players every year as new guys take the spot they thought they would have.

YGUN if they did their due diligence they would know that Georgia is a tough nut to crack and that the coach is detrermined to win by honing the recruits and weeding them out. His job depends on it.
I also feel for some of the coaches. One I know moved his family to his new location. They had to start over again and now are out on their ear since the coach was forced to resign. New coach and he hires his own people. He has to win or he is gone in a few short years.

Bubbleheaddoll,

You are right re due diligence by parents but we all know that many parents/players are ill-equipped to do this unless they have gone thru the recruiting process before.

The NCAA needs to intervene, add scholly money and require real commitment from colleges (no NLIs over the number of roster slots available.) BTW, NLI players absolutely can be cut -- there are 20 of them at UGA today that can attest to that. One of them wanted to attend summer school and was told by Perno/Ellers not to do that. When he asked why, he was told to wait until there were tutors available during fall session. Well, you guessed it; he was told last week that too many players returned or didn't go pro so his roster spot/scholly money is unavailable.

He doesn't have the money to go to college or the grades for HOPE scholarship so he is out. Now he is scrambling to figure out what he does next.

I am a big UGA fan but this is abuse to the extreme. Just because there isn't a rule prohibiting this, doesn't make it ethical. Perno is ruining careers and families and it appears he doesn't give a whit; it's all about winning and crushing innocent players in the process.

I personally tell players and parents to avoid UGA baseball, Perno and Ellers like the plague in the hopes they will not be dupes in the UGA baseball machine (which may be as good at going to Omaha as putting NLI signees thru the rack).

Atlanta , one ofr my favourite cities. I have relatives there . One cusin works at Coke head office. He is afraid to take a vacation because he is afraid someone wil take his office while he is gone.
Like I say I don't disput that Georgia is what people are saying. I see it at other schools as well. You are right that most don't have the tools to investigate and that is the great thing about this site. Those who find it are being warned. It is brutal and it is common place.

You can be sure the admin is on top of it, since he has $2.25 millions reasons to continue to do what he does.

I wonder what he would have received if he won the CWS?

UGA News

quote:

Originally posted by Baseball Maven:
He doesn't have the money to go to college or the grades for HOPE scholarship so he is out. Now he is scrambling to figure out what he does next.

If he couldn't afford college tuition, grades below for Hope money, was Perno giving him a 100% scholley?

Baseball Maven,
You stated that the coaches were vague with your son, did you not realize at the time that they most likely were not interested? Did you do your homework that Perno has a history of over recruiting? Would your son have signed if offered, even knowing they over recruit?
If he is so disliked, why would so many drafted players return? Why do so many players stay 4 years?
Unfortunetly, this happens everywhere, even the honest coaches get caught in situations. What happens when a coach recruits players that don't show up and he's caught short, do we feel sorry for the coaches? Do we accuse the kids who signed with MLB not living up to their NLI, dishonest?
Don't get me wrong, I am not a Perno fan, I know of situations where things didn't work out. Players not needed yet headed off to other programs and made impacts. This is not exclusive to UGA. This happens when coaches have winning programs, everyone wants to come, and some are willing to look beyond the obvious.
I also know of players who are headed to UGA, some of their folks post or read here. Fully aware of the circumstances their players had enough confidance to know the situation, that an NLI does not guarantee you playing time and ready to face the challenge.

So let's keep in mind that while it doesn't work for some, it works for others.

The good in all of this is that people will learn that it's very important to do your homework, speak to people and be knowledgeable that college baseball is a business, which might not always include everyone.