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Around and around we go were it stops nobody knows. unfortunitly the only one that gets hurt is the student athlete's and for me that is unacceptable. 11.7 scholly's is the first issue and transfer penalties if cut from team are ridiculous.
If a coach gives a player a release there should never be a sit rule...period they didn't offer the player a spot on team so whether he transferred or not he sits...why very Dumb
Perhaps someone with football and or basketball knowledge can tell me how they handle there recruiting or is this as i expect a baseball situation? I'd be interested in hearing.
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| Posts: 382 | Location: Florida | Registered: April 21, 2007 | |
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| Posts: 375 | Location: California | Registered: August 04, 2003 | |
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quote: Originally posted by RYNO:
Around and around we go were it stops nobody knows. unfortunitly the only one that gets hurt is the student athlete's and for me that is unacceptable. 11.7 scholly's is the first issue and transfer penalties if cut from team are ridiculous.
If a coach gives a player a release there should never be a sit rule...period they didn't offer the player a spot on team so whether he transferred or not he sits...why very Dumb
RYNO- I think this is definately a baseball situation and I agree with what you are saying. There is no way a kid should be punished for a coach's error. In NCAA Football a coach would be scared to do this because if the word got out that he ever did this then the other recruits would start to look elsewhere because of the fear that this could happen to them.
Perhaps someone with football and or basketball knowledge can tell me how they handle there recruiting or is this as i expect a baseball situation? I'd be interested in hearing.
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| Posts: 46 | Location: Thomasville | Registered: August 14, 2007 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll: I have never heard of a senior having money taken away. Usually they just cut them. ************Whats the difference************** If they give any BB money they have to maintain a 25% pakage minimumm. Cutting a BB scholly makes no sense. ****Only for 2008-09 newbies and beyond**** QUOTE]
Flash Baseball
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| Posts: 1592 | Location: OHIO | Registered: September 16, 2005 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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quote: Originally posted by CollegeParent:
I remember reading this article a few years ago. I guess the numbers need to be updated! [URL=http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/over_recruiting_2002.htm][/URL]
Howdeshell, in 2002, did not believe 'Over Recruiting' was an issue, and wrote the article with this in mind. When he wrote the year before, and on this web site, several articles on "Stockpiling" in college baseball, I agree when Bob wrote "High School Baseball Web became public enemy #1!" At that time, Howdeshell singled out several over-recruiting colleges: LSU, Nebraska LA Tech Cal St-F UGa OK St ASU In 2002, he may have missed many more including: Texas FSU Clemson Winthrop MSU For 2009, the number has grown from 40 to over 100! That is significant. Something needs to be done. |
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| Posts: 1568 | Location: Fairland, Maryland USA | Registered: December 26, 2002 | |
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Fungo and Cleveland Dad, You guys are right on IMO. If a coach in a top level D-1 school isn't aggressive enough, he won't be there for long. If the majority of drafted players signed pro contracts there better be plenty of new talent ready to step in. It's the price you have to pay to play with the big boys. Also you can't stress enough about learning from " parents and/or mentors" as Thats-a-balk states, but I wouldn't pay to much attention to insults from posters refering to old sayings. This is America, where the last time I checked you could open you mouth, and as Young Gun Dad refered to "appear stupid".
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| Posts: 113 | Location: pa. | Registered: August 14, 2007 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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Thoughts about a few comments made on this thead: by phlash3 quote: If a coach in a top level D-1 school isn't aggressive enough, he won't be there for long. If the majority of drafted players signed pro contracts there better be plenty of new talent ready to step in. It's the price you have to pay to play with the big boys.
This doesn't have to happen. There are notable exceptions to the rule, such as Fresno State, which proves that over-recruiting need not occur. Fort Valley commented about UGA: quote: After cutting at least one returning player they are still 16 over the number for scholarships."
Can UGA say with a straight face that 16 players did not sign pro contracts as expected? Very doubtful.  From FanofGame: quote: Maybe you will see less players comitting in November and really taking their time to chose a school. As mentioned the players that sign in November, it is a BIG deal to those kids and Im sure their parents. People assume the BEST players are taken then."
It could be a risky proposition for talented recruits to wait. By spring, much of the scholarship money may have dried up and quite a few may not want to take that chance. Besides, even if schools keep numbers down in the fall with early signees, what's to keep them from over-recruiting in the spring? BobbleheadDoll commented: quote: I have never heard of a senior having money taken away. Usually they just cut them. If they give any BB money they have to maintain a 25% package minimum. Cutting a BB scholly makes no sense. You will just have an unhappy player so why wouldn't the coach just cut him? An unhappy player who had money taken away would be like a cancer on the team.
I have heard anecdotes regarding this occurrence for seniors and know firsthand of a highly-recruited JUCO player who returned for his sophomore year and learned that his scholarship had been taken away. (The coach gave away too much money to incoming freshmen.) The player was not cut from the team; rather, he started the entire season and is headed to a CWS team this fall. He was definitely unhappy about the situation, but by the time he found out, it was too late to go anywhere else. I read the HSBBW article about over-recruiting in 2002 and it provided the link to a related article. In the second article, there are some wonderful questions players and parents can ask when evaluating a program and its tendency to over-recruit. http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/stockpiling_3.htmInteresting tidbits from the aforementioned article: To many coaches way of thinking an ideal roster size is 30 to 32 players, with a breakdown as follows: 12 to 14 pitchers 3 catchers 13 to 15 position players A bonus is when a pitcher or two can also fill in as a position player, DH, etc. For most players a program that limits its roster to 30 or so players will offer the best opportunity to be given a fair chance at playing time. |
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| Posts: 2212 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: April 11, 2006 | |
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I'm pretty sure you have to attend class (or practice) to be considered a transfer. If you haven't attended class and the coach releases you, then you don't have to sit out.
An expert at anything was once a beginner.
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| Posts: 296 | Location: South | Registered: July 05, 2007 | |
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If you closely followed the UGA program over the last five years and had inside information from some of the players you would realize what was going on there. The multiple coaching changes (not for head coaching jobs or higher profile schools) and personal stories from the players would help you have a clearer picture of what was going on. If you kept track of the recruits and where they ended up you would see that it is a tough place to get playing time at, but works out well for some. You just don't hear about all the players that have left.
Many recruited players and their parents do not have this information and they continue to go there. If you are a stud, it may be fine for you, but many of the players they recruit and give the impression that they will play do not have the talent. They grab 20 or so players every year and take the best as they see fit, often cutting or farming out a majority of them.
It has been successful and the administration supported the coach with a new contract, however the price to pay has been high for some and I know that some players have been mislead as to their chances to get playing time. Maybe that is common, but it doesn't happen at all successful programs, and probably shouldn't happen at all.
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| Posts: 15 | Location: GA | Registered: February 21, 2007 | |
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Infield08, As usual you bring up a lot of good points. I'll have to chew on them for a while. It's hard to come up with a fix for all situations but perhaps this site can help steer "some/many" people in the right direction.
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| Posts: 113 | Location: pa. | Registered: August 14, 2007 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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quote: Originally posted by Dad04:
They have football redshirts, for one thing. Freshman football players are usually redshirts, unless they are super stars. Everyone is on a full ride, except the occasional walk-on. 85 schollys with 11 men on the field, versus baseball at 11.7 and 9. Hoops get 12 rides for 12 spots.
Basketball has twelve rides for fifteen spots. Women's basketball get fifteen for fifteen.
* Live fully, enjoy every moment, and let go of the petty problems, mostly of our own invention, which seek to destroy the spirit. * - a good friend, the late Brad Perkins of KIRO
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| Posts: 1718 | Location: Mid-Atlantic | Registered: October 29, 2007 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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quote: many of the players they recruit and give the impression that they will play do not have the talent.
I understand that there are many players that want to attend a college that is in state and also a big time program in a top conference. What I don't understand is why recruiters at a national power program would give the impression of playing time to kids who lack the necessary talent to play there. That seems like a waste of valuable recruiting time. |
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| Posts: 4994 | Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa | Registered: December 27, 2002 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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The porblem is that the people making all the observations and critiques are on the outside discussing rumors and hearsay----has anyone ever interviewed the coach in question about the real facts I agree with PG---the coaches do not have the time to be playing frivilous games regarding recruiting
TRhit
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| Posts: 19278 | Location: Manchester, CT USA | Registered: December 26, 2002 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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This is not strictly a UGA phenomenon. It is happening all over Texas and other places as well. We are definitely in a transition phase with the new rules - coaches, players and parents will have to adapt how they approach the recruiting process. Those schools that over recruit and then cut will obtain the appropriate reputation. It is incumbent upon parents to advise their player-sons on finding the right fit first (school-wise, then baseball opportunity-wise) before making any commitment. If you get stars in your eyes and jump at (or chase) an offer from "big state school U" you may be disappointed later on down the road. It is obvious the commitment of some coaches will mean very little, while others will be more careful and honor their commitments. It is not a fair situation for the student-athletes, but life is often not fair, and requires some advance planning. It also requires a humble approach (bury the ego) in order to avoid being humbled.  |
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| Posts: 597 | Location: Dallas,Texas | Registered: December 26, 2002 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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If a coach took away a scholarship I would move on to another college. Once an NLI is signed he can't take it away until the following year by letting the player know he is not renewing the BB money. This happens quite often and usually at the exit meeting. Unfortunately the new rules require you to sit out for a year. If a coach renegs on his verbal offer to give a transfer a schollarship he offered and that guy hasn't reported as stated above he is free to move on without sitting.
I have seen many guys lose their scholarships at the end of the year. I know one guy who had the coach walk out to the mound and told him he would not renew the scholly. He was upset with the guy's performance and lost his temper.
I have always know that scholarships can dissappear at any year depending on several things including new recruits. Last year a soph left half way through the spring because a freshman took over his role. The guy who left was ahigh ranked prospect and saw his role diminished substancially. I saw a pitcher leave last year who only got 9 innings with poor stats who went to a D11 and went 13-0 last season. He actually was signed by a MLB team and left college and is now in the minors.
Coaches are human and they make mistakes. Some very talented players get cut or lose scholarships. Some times the chemistry is just bad. There is often no rhyme or reason for what happens. My son had an awful year last year and he got a $2000.00 increase in his BB money which is already a large amount. I was worried he would be let go so who knows.
To me over recruiting will always be there and only the sit rule is a problem. If my son had been cut in his freashman year he would have transfered after the fall. He would have picked his courses so they transferred and moved on. The fact that he had a large scholarship made being cut not likely. At the exit meeting the coach will tell you how he sees your role and then you could make up your mind to stay or leave.
The sit rule doesn't effect us but I hope they change it for the good of the students who find themselves in an utenable situation.
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| Posts: 4364 | Location: Canada | Registered: October 13, 2005 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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35 man roster. If you over recruit you are going to have to let some guys go. If you expect to lose X number of players to the draft and then it doesnt pan out then you are going to have some issues with your roster if you have recruited to replace guys that now are not going to be leaving. There are many different scenarios that can take place. I would expect some programs to come in under the 35 man limit because they did not over recruit and lost some guys to the draft they did not expect to lose. Before there was not roster limit. Now there is. There are going to be some growing pains for the players , parents and coaches. Its going to take some time for people to learn how to work within the framework of the new rules.
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| Posts: 3629 | Location: Stem, NC | Registered: January 26, 2003 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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I agree with TR and PG here...coaches are always lambasted about this but we certainly don't have all the facts at hand. Keep this in mind: there is a 35 man roster max, but only 30 players can receive athletic $. I suspect that many of the players involved were receiving Georgia's Hope Scholarship $ and/or other forms of aid. If its LOI money, UGA is on the hook for the scholly $ for a year, but there's no guarantee of a roster spot. Its a very difficult system to manage as a head coach, and it may seem unfair to parents and players but its the world we live in. Its even an issue in my neighborhood 
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| Posts: 649 | Location: Tempe, Arizona | Registered: January 02, 2003 | |
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HSBBWeb Old Timer
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quote: Its even an issue in my neighborhood
I'll bet it is! |
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| Posts: 2212 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: April 11, 2006 | |
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