What is considered a "full athletic" scholarship? My son was offered 100% of everything except for room. Academics are not involved. Does this mean that this school now has only 10.7 scholarships?

If "room" is not involved you do not have a 100% scholarship--you have a scholarship for tuition and I assume books

1sttimer - Also, I assume you're talking about a DI as they are the ones that are allowed to fund 11.7. However, many DIs do not fund that many, so depending on where they start would be the percentage your son's schooly came out of.

Like TR said, a "full ride" is where everything is paid and rarely happens. However, with grants and other monies, your son's "package" could go up.

A full ride is equal to the COA (cost of attendence): Tuition + Room + Board + Fees + Books.

We were told by son's HS coach that the college recruiters at a particular college out here in California look at how much we're already spending on high school tuition. They figure we've been paying that already and so will factor that into how much they offer. For example, if we've been paying 15,000 for high school and college is 20, 000..they'll offer 5,000. Isn't that how they work out the 11.7 money?

With thanks to others on this site who explained it to me (esp. Prepster and Tiger Paw Mom):

The NCAA calculates the average cost of attending the school, which includes tuition and fees, room and board. (I'm not sure about a books allowance.) Then you get 11.7 times that average cost number as a cap on the amount of dollars the program can spend on scholarships.

There is an interesting aspect to this with state-supported universities. The average cost is weighted based on the differences in cost for in-state and out-of-state students.

The result is that if the program focuses on in-state players, it will actually have more money to spend than it would take to give out 11.7 full in-state rides. But less than it would take to give out 11.7 full out-of-state rides.

A state U program that is heavy on in-state students may actually have the equivalent of more than 11.7 scholarships to dole out, if the program is fully funded.

So, to answer the question, no, what you described would not reduce their allotment to 10.7 because it doesn't work that way at all.

Newcomer - Most people aren't paying for their kids HS education as most HS are public. If I had a kid at a private school and a coach wanted to consider what I had been paying for that education, I would not be happy. That doesn't have anything to do with college and shouldn't with an offer. Using the FAFSA is a different matter which many coaches do consider.

First timer - I just realized that you're new here so WELCOME! There are many, many discussions around here regarding scholarships and how it all works. One thing you may want to do is search for threads on scholarships. Click on the FIND button up top then enter scholarship and see what comes up.

Midlo,
Good job!

To make it easier, as an example, if the coach has 250K to spend, and he is offering to pay the average tuition cost for the recruit, let's say 10K, for 11.7 he is only getting a small portion of the pie.
Use this knowledge wisely with the idea that trying to sound like you know more than you should can make a good offer turn into no offer.

Bottom line is and always should be, how much is it going to cost me for my son to attend.

Welcome to the HSBBW!

Hello there FirstTimer

Glad to have you here contributing to the HSBBW board. This is a good question and the above answers are good, however, we need to get the other costs covered too. If they will cover that much, they'll cover the rest, IMHO. It's like a first offer in the form of a signing bonus after being drafted. Never take the first offer Shep's .02 peace

I'm no expert, but I'm concerned about Shep's rather broad statement "Never take the first offer". There are probably situations when it makes sense to negotiate, and others when failure to accept the initial offer just tells that coach to move on to the next recruit rather than wasting his time.

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
I'm no expert, but I'm concerned about Shep's rather broad statement "Never take the first offer". There are probably situations when it makes sense to negotiate, and others when failure to accept the initial offer just tells that coach to move on to the next recruit rather than wasting his time.

I suggest that one reads the book "Official Visit" by Ben Harrison.
There can be a negotiation process, and I am sure it goes on all of the time. However, in this business, it's also based on economics. If you are not one of the coach's top recruit, try to hold out for more money, possibilty (and most liekly)he will go to the other player who he is also recruting.
Those "blue chip" guys you always talk about, may have the opportunity to negotiate, others not so.

The suggestion is to ask for a "full ride". There are very, very few who will get that amount, most likely the more they give the more they hope that the recruit doesn't go pro. If anyone thinks that their player deserves a "full ride", and is a top prospect in the country, well then go for it.

I spoke to a recruiter who just retired after 40 years at a mojor D1 school and he told me he had never seen a full ride given to any ball player. He said he heard rummors about Jeter getting one but said he doubted it.
He said 1 ball player cannot make a team great so they spend most of their money on LHPs andRHP and npt even close to a full ride.
When you negotiate you are running a big risk so you have to be prepared to lose. The coach probably tales the monet from another player who hasn't committed. They withdraw that players offer.

Consider asking the coach;
1. Is the D1 program fully funded?
2. How many players are carried on the roster?
3. What is the % of scholarships allocated to each position?
4. Is academic available, what are the criteria, and does it have any impact on the 11.7 scholarships.

A fully funded D1 program can carry 30 players, 25 travel to away games, all 30 suite up for home games. Most then carry red-shirts, as many as 4-6, maybe more. How do you think the facilities get in such great shape?

Some programs have a general idea, based on a % of scholarships that they allocate to each position. For example, at one D1 program, of the 11.7 scholarships, 7 are allocated to pitchers, 2 are allocated to catchers, and the remaining 2.7 scholarships are allocated to the infield and outfield positions. I’m not saying all D1 programs allocate scholarships by this % but the more familiar I get with all of this I would bet most are similar. It may be 6-2-3.7, 6.5-2-3.2, or something to that effect. If we broke it down further, a fully funded D1 program’s roster may look like this; 14 pitchers, 4 catchers, and 12 infield/outfield. Based on the 7-2-2.7 split and allocating all scholarships… each pitcher would get 50%, each catcher 50%, and the position players, IF/OF 22.5 %. Given your position, if you benchmark your offer based on this you can get an idea just how good the offer is. However, in the real world the allocation may look something like this;

Pitchers:
3 @ 80% 2.4 scholarships
2 @ 60% 1.2 scholarships
4 @ 50% 2.0 scholarships
5 @ 28% 1.4 scholarships
14 - 7.0 scholarships

Catchers:
1 @ 80% 0.8 scholarships
1 @ 50% 0.5 scholarships
2 @ 35% 0.7 scholarships
4 - 2.0 scholarships

Infield & Outfield:
2 @ 40% 0.8 scholarships
2 @ 35% 0.7 scholarships
4 @ 20% 0.8 scholarships
4 @ 10% 0.4 scholarships
12 - 2.7 scholarships

This algorithm is always in a state of flux. Although most D1 programs have a solid team “core” or base, players leave throughout the school year for many reasons, freeing up scholarship monies; evaluations are made after the fall workout, players may get injured, players leave due to playing time or position within the depth chart, finances, personal/family situations, sickness, grades, burn-out, MLB draft, graduation, NCAA eligibility, discipline issues, etc….

Check to see if academic scholarship is available or a “redheaded, left-handed, stepchild” scholarship. However, some conferences count academic scholarship, etc., toward the 11.7 allocation.

The point I’m trying to make is that baseball scholarships are not like basketball or football. The allocation may increase, decrease, or vanish depending on performance, scholarship availability and/or the needs of the team. An unknown phenomenal pitcher may enter a program for books and by his junior year be on an 80% scholarship. A stud all-state “blue-chip” IF/OF prospect may command 65% to sign and commit his freshman year and, if he doesn’t perform to expectations, end up at 35-40% by the end of his career. Never have I seen a 100% or “full athletic” scholarship in NCAA D1 baseball. Hope this helps.

Smokey,
Good job! I like it!

Another thing you might want to ask, will my scholarship remain the same. Although the NLI is for one year, most college coaches should be honest. I know at son's school your amount remains the same as long as you are there, with possibly freed up money going to seniors who remain. An honest coach doesn't take away a scholarship unless they become academically ineligible. An honest coach doesn't give out scholarships randomly, then cuts back in spring.

Few parents or players or even other coaches know what other college coaches are doing when it comes to allocating scholarships... AND ... I know for a fact there are 100% scholarships (everything) offered by D-1 programs in baseball. Granted they are few and far between but they are offered. On the topic of tuition at state supported colleges; correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that a college can give a 100% scholarship to an out of state player and the program is only “docked” 1 full scholarship.
Fungo

"Check to see if academic scholarship is available or a “redheaded, left-handed, stepchild” scholarship. However, some conferences count academic scholarship, etc., toward the 11.7 allocation."

It's not just some conferences, it's the NCAA. There is a great thread on the HSBBW about "Scholarship blending" and it's worthwhile reading. The thread cites to the 2003 version of the NCAA Manual for how to determine what is "institutional" aid or not. If something is "institutional" aid, then it is counted against scholarship amounts IF a player also gets baseball money.

John, I think most experienced posters qualify their statements because pretty much everything has happened to some player at some program. How many times have we read here there aren't any 100% baseball scholarships; but if Fungo says they've happened...then they've happened!

To gauge an offer, you've got to be honest about your ability. If you've gotten serious early-round draft interest, you should expect a majority offer. If you're good enough to realisticaly expect to be considered for a starting position, you should be looking for around half. If your highly desirable with potential -- look for a third. And a lot of guys will be at a third or less.

And all this has to be reckoned against the level of the program.

What they offer will tell you a lot about how you're being considered for early PT.

I will disagree with one point --- guys have had their schollies reduced by honest coaches because of (shall we say) a lack of honest effort on the part of the player.

WOW! This has been very helpful and thank you for welcoming me to the site. I was at work and cannot log on and respond or they will shut me down! Thank you everyone for your input. The college I speak of is a D1 state college (not a major D1 - but making an offer that is hard to refuse). I appreciate the explanations everyone has given. Also very useful was the info I found on this site for "in-home" visit.

Fungo...
You are absolutely correct. If an in-state or out-of-state player is offered 100% the program is now minus 1 scholarship. If an in-state or out-of-state player is given 75% of the total cost then the program is minus .75 of 1 scholarship. Players are listed by % qualifiers, meaning what % of 1 scholarship they receive. It has NO bearing on how much money the school has budgeted for scholarships. You can only have 11.7. Smokey's breakdown spells it out nicely in percentages.

Again, if total cost in-state is $10,000 and $20,000 out-of state including room and board, books and fees. 100% is 1 full scholarship regardless of cost. If 2 players are given 50%, one is in-state and the other out-of-state, the program spent $15,000 and would have used up 1 scholarship from the 11.7 as both boys would be 50% qualifiers.

I also agree with Fungo, there are full rides although very rare.......I have 2 pitchers playing for me now that have been offered 100% baseball money at different schools although they are smaller D1's. Last year I had 2 players who were also offered 100% with 1 of those players being offered 4 100% baseball scholarships. Again, smaller D1's.