Im just wondering what the average velocity is on a throw from outfielders in college. I attended a PG showcase this weekend and was clocked at 90MPH from the OF. I looked at the other 60-70 or so outfielders and the highest was 86mph. Responses would be awesome.

sounds like a question tailor-made for PGStaff. Jerry, am I wrong? 90 mph is excellent.

Rob, Did you notice the arm Stanford's rightfielder showed last night? He had a cannon. My son and I happened to talk to his Dad before the game waiting to get into the park.

I'd be interested to hear whether folks think there is an "average" or "standard" outfield velocity. Certainly in MLB you have a wide range.

A guy like Johnny Damon gets to play based on his offensive value and his ability at least to get to a lot of balls. But they way he throws left handed would make you swear he must actually be right handed. If his throws top 70 mph, I'd be surprised. Just goes to show you, if you can hit, someone will want you. First things first!

But just judging arms based on arms alone, I would have to believe that 90 mph puts you in the upper echelon.

That is above average.

but if you cant hit it wont matter. Teams will take a run producer over the occassional throw in from the outfield.

the cannon arm just makes you more desirable when comparing to other players with like offensive skills.

Guys, the outfielders velocity on a radar gun isn't useful unless you put that guy on the mound.

I have seen many guys throw 90 plus from the outfield yet have below avg. arms to well below avg. arms. The reason for this is that an outfielder needs to have on line carry without any tail or run. The outfield arm needs to be long in back with a big circled arc.

Just to throw 90 from the outfield doesn't warrant an avg to above avg. arm. I have watched many guys throw 90 from the outfield yet still can't get the ball to a cutoff man in the air.

In my opinion the radar gun reading of an outfielder is just a way to make you feel like your getting your money's worth. The true value of an outfielders arm can only be evaluated by the nakkid eye and not a gun reading.

But if you throw 90 from the outfield with a crow hope and can use a crow hop from the mound then you may wanta think about pitching.

No sarcasim or condensending remarks applied. Just stating facts.

Vance, you're right and you're wrong. 90 doesn't make a good outfielder. The question was about velocity and 90 is above average.
Assuming all things being equal, meaning this kid is a ballplayer like those on his team and in his league. He should be able to throw without much tail. Most 90 arms tend to have carry just because of the greater velocity. I don't know if anyone who plays the game regularly, and plays Of, and throws that hard, can't reach the middle of the If. So in answer to his question, 90 is above average.
However, you must be a hitter and a good all around Of in order to advance to the next level.

Coachric, your right, I didn't say 90 made a good outfielder.

WHAT I DID SAY, was that 90 doesn't make an above avg. arm. That 90 MPH your reading on the gun is out of the hand. In 60 feet its gonna be going about 78 MPH and in 120 feet its going to be going about 65 MPH.

Most pitchers from the mound who are 90 out of the hand are about 77-78-79 by the time the ball gets to the plate.

The beauty COACHRIC, and excuse me for being so darn CONDESENDING AND SARCASTIC, is to SEE with the eye the carry on the ball.

I don't know what games you are watching, but most hs and college Outfielders throw with some type of movement on the ball. Run, tail, hump,ballon, sink, cut. Most times because of bad arm actions.

and NO 90 would not be avg! Nor is it important! Whats important when it comes to oufielders arms is the long arm action in back and the on line carry. Velocity from the hand doesn't mean that will happen!

What is important for outfielders is being able to allow the cut off man to make the play he sees fit--cut it or not cut it--- without that ability on a throw it all goes to H e l l in a basket real quick

TR HIT, I'm sure you mean to either CUT IT or RELAY IT!!!

Whats important for an outfielder is for him to be able to make an on line throw to home in the last inning with the game timed and the winning run headed to the plate! The do-or-die.

Vance,

TR has it right. You can not relay it if you do not cut it. A good outfield throw from any place on the field to any target base must be on a line through the cutoff man. It does no good to make a throw that goes from RF to 3B over the cutoff mans head, unless of course you want the guy who hit a single to right to just have 2B. Players are taught this from the time they start LL, but its amazing how many times you see it done incorrectly.

It is lost fundamental nowadays as watching most MLB outfielders will attest. Oh where have you gone Dwight Evans!

By the way I agree that its important to make that throw with the game on the line, but how many can actually do it? I recall days long ago when outfielders truely took pride in their defensive abilities (ie, Carl Yastrzemski
Roberto Clemente...etc) Today the offensive side is so overstressed. Ever see Damon make that game saving throw?

I did see the RF for Miami yesterday throw a strike to the plate and the Rice 3B coach knew the kid could make the throw because he did not even hesitate at holding a runner coming from second on the hit to right. It was NICE to see that throw.

NH

That had to be one of best college throws I have seen in a long time--- the "gun" in the outfield is always respected--it takes away extra bases without even making the play-- great secret weapon

TR,

Yes, it is a great weapon, but that skill set seems to be put on the back burner today.
We are amazed when we see a throw like that now, rather than expecting it to happen with regularity.

When I was growing up, my dad's big gift for himself was a trip to Fenway once a year (I grew up in central Maine). I remember going on those long bus rides with him and we would get to Fenway early and go in and watch some of the pregame. I will never forget watching Evans pregame warm ups which ended with him throwing strike after strike to home from deep in RF off fungo flies.

I love watching Nixon play the game, but from an arm perspective, he is like a Little Leaguer compared to Evans.

no TR HIT doesn't have it right! A cut is just that "A CUT" and a relay is just that "A RELAY". When you hear CUT, you hold the ball and run it in. When you hear RELAY, you catch the ball and relay it to the proper bag by throwing it!

Velocity is only another bit of data. By itself it doesn't mean much. But when we grade arms some very interesting things show up. By the way, even though we gun infielders, outfielders and catchers... we don't close our eyes. We also note carry, path, accuracy, arm action, and movement on the ball among other things.

After gunning the velocity of thousands of players... I've been surprised. In most cases I set in the stands and grade arms by the old fashion eye ball method. 9 out of 10 times when I compare the highest graded arms to our velocity charts... We got the same guys at the top. This also holds true for infielders and catchers... I'd say at least 9 out of 10 times.

All one has to do is check those velocity readings of the best infield, outfield and catcher arms. Last year it was Jonathan Edwards who had the highest reading from the outfield. Chris Marrero from the infield, Torre Langley from behind the plate. I have never seen an above average outfield arm that we didn't get at 90 or better. Never seen a above average grade infield arm below 87 mph. Never seen an above average catchers arm without at the very least 80 mph usually higher velocity on his pop times.

I still don't think the velocity readings are the most important but it is another bit of information. Everyone in scouting should want every bit of information they can lay their hands on.

Vance, did you really mean most 90 mph fastballs are as low as 77 at the plate? We have several Stalkers that give both readings. I've never seen anywhere near that much loss in velocity in less than 60'.

What I said was ABOUT 78 MPH. Most 90 MPH guys from the mound will be around 78-80 at the plate. I said MOST.

Also note that Ausmus is one of better catch/ throw guys in bigs. I'll bet you he doesn't throw in the better catchers group for velocity among big league catchers. Its all about the exchange and the quick release, same for OFers and Infielders! I'll take the OFer who throws with the lesser "OF Velocity" as long as he can get rid of the ball quickly and accurately and with a long arm action to produce some carry. That means I don't wanta see him take 5 running steps and a crowhop to throw it.

As I said earlier, the radar use of a position player is to make the participant and his parents feel like they are getting their moneys worth. You Jim have said as such when you remarked that your OLD FASHION WAY of grading matches the Radar Gun reading. Why not eliminate the radar for position players since you can arrive at the same end result without it? I'll tell you why, as I said earlier. It makes the PAYER feel like they are getting their moneys worth from the PAYEE. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

Vance,

When was the last time you heard anyone on field holler "RELAY"? The bag Number yes,
but never "RELAY", Players will yell the bag, ie 2, 3 or 4. A relay to home on an off line throw is called out as "CUT 4", not "RELAY 4".
a true cutoff is called out as "CUT" with bag number.

You claim to yelling relay and throwing to the proper bag....what bag? someone else on the field is going to be calling out where to throw, the player catching the throw needs to know where to go with his throw.

I just got back from the 3 day Legion tournament in Keene, NH. We had teams from NH, CT, NY and even Anchorage, Alaska.

I watched every team, never once heard a player yell "RELAY".

Vance,

With all due respect, how can anything someone else does be PLAIN and SIMPLE to you?

The reason we get velocity readings on all players has nothing to do with PAYER and PAYEE. It is one of the simplest things we do and I can’t imagine anyone paying for it.

Once again, we do use the OLD FASHION way and we ALSO get the velocity. When you put these two things together you have a better overall view of the player.

Let’s say an outfielder throws a 94 mph throw. He does not get good on line carry and his ball seems dead at the end. Would anyone be interested in knowing this outfielder threw 94 mph out of his hand? Maybe not you Vance, but anyone at all? Well, we are interested in knowing these things. It tells us with proper mechanics and getting better rotation on the ball… this kid has a chance to have a plus MLB arm. The technique is easier to improve than the arm strength.

Information, no matter how unimportant it might seem… Is important! Especially once you establish the very best gun readings from any position have also had the top arm grade! If it were possible to have two identical players at any position except for these gun readings… who you going to pick? If one catcher throws accurate 1.9 with 80 mph velocity and another catcher throws accurate 1.9 with 86 mph… Which has the better arm? Which catcher projects the most for lowering their pop time?

Vance, More than once you’ve brought up the money thing. That really doesn’t bother me, but I don’t know why you do that. We try to provide the most possible information to scouts, college recruiters and AGENTS! If those people aren’t interested, so be it! It’s my opinion they should be interested. It is added information!

By the way, not that it’s important, but my name is not Jim.

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:
no TR HIT doesn't have it right! A cut is just that "A CUT" and a relay is just that "A RELAY". When you hear CUT, you hold the ball and run it in. When you hear RELAY, you catch the ball and relay it to the proper bag by throwing it!

Actually - a good infielder will do more than just hold the ball and run it in.

I cant tell you how many times I received a relay throw - with my teammates yelling "Hold" -and wound up catching the secondary runner off his bag.

Actually - it is a fun play.
Simply holding the ball and running is not my idea of an alert infielder.

JMHO

You know if I were as smart as VANCE I would have a book and video out and be selling it any place we can sell it

WOW !!! I now realize I have been doing it wrong for nearly 60 years!!!