I would like to start a discussion by posing the following question. Why are many middle infielders taught to approach a ground ball hit at them from the non-glove side rather than charging the ball straight on and fielding it straight up? I guess I am way to old school on this and I would like someone to comment on the advantages v disavantages analysis that explains the theory behind teaching this technique as I see it used by infielders at many showcases and tryouts. I am not talking about getting on the non-glove side of a ground ball hit on the third base side of the short-stop for example, but a ground ball hit straight at the player or slightly to his glove side that he can easily charge and field.

We covered this in the thread below. It is optimal to receive the ball on the glove side and its not optimal to move the glove toward the middle of the body. If the ball is hit right at a middle infielder, even a 3b thats playing back, they move slightly right in order to have the ball left of center and then their momentum will take them toward 1b also. If a gb is right at them and they are in the middle of the ball, how do they compensate for a bad hop to their throwing hand side. With momentum, they will adjust easier.

I understand your explanation about the ball being left of center is optimal for making an easier throw because of the player's momentum going towards 1B. But what about the bad hop to the left side of the infielder? Won't that be more difficult to block with the body with this technique than the traditional ball in the center of the body approach? And is the time saved in being in a better position to make the throw to first lost by the infielder moving first to the right of the ball and then left when approaching the ball when straight on is the shortest distance and thus the quickiest route to reach the ground ball and make any necessary adjustment based on the possible short hop or skidding grounder that hugs the ground on the last hop? The reason I ask this is I saw an error committed by a college shortstop using this approach the ball from the right technique on an otherwise routine ground ball that took a unanticipated slight hop to the player's right that he attempted to backhand while still moving towards first and was unable to complete the play. I saw an almost identical play made by a straight on college shortstop who, because he was moving forward instead of sideways, made the adjustment on the hop to his right needed to cleanly field the ball and throw the runner out.

I guess my ultimate question is do you recommend this approach for every infielder or just those encountering some difficulty planting and making a accurate throw from a dead stop after fielding or blocking the ground ball straight on?

Thank you for your input.

TW344

I will throw my .02 in here. I teach all of my infielders as if they were shortstops. Now, I do make some different suggestions to my corner infielders such as staying a little wider and lower in their two-step approach on the pitch, but for the most part everything else is pretty much the same.

The points mentioned about taking the quickest route to the ball are valid. With the straight on approach you will be quick to the ball, but momentum for the throw will either be going in a direction away from the intended target causing player to throw across their bodies and get less on the throw, or by having no momentum and having to create it after fielding the ball.

I teach all my infielders to create an angle when fielding straight on balls. They take an aggessive, straight-on approach to the ball, round it off and field under the left eye to center of body, and have momentum going towards their target to get an accurate throw with more on it because of the lower body momentum.

One thing I tell my infielders is that for every step they make to field and throw the ball, the runner is taking 1-2 steps down the line depending on the speed of the runner. So, they must be quick and aggressive to the ball (but under control) and make strong, accurate throws.

Maybe the main reason for fielding balls left of center is it actually makes your hand/glove more flexible/adjustable (softer hands). If an infielder tries to field everything dead center, he will receive the ball dead center… to a bit left of center… to a bit right of center. Center is OK… Left is best… Right is the killer!

Unless it is vitally important to not allow the ball to get out of the infield it is much easier to make the play to the glove side. We actually see young shortstops making errors hundreds of times each year trying to field the ball on the throwing side with an open glove. They can’t turn the glove and back hand so they get tied up and the glove hand gets hard. Fielding on the throwing side also causes the need to field/receive the ball too deep, which is another problem.

You don’t even need to field a ball to understand the problem. Get into fielding position and check your ability and range to smoothly move your open glove hand up-down. Start dead center, then to the left, then to the right. Also check your glove/hand angles when you do this.

Whether it’s a ground ball or line drive or even a thrown ball the age old term “handcuffed” happens nearly always when a fielder is forced to receive the ball throwing side of center with glove open (rather than back hand).

Watching a couple kids play catch you’ll see them turn the glove and catch throws back hand that are center to throwing side and open hand to catch throws left of their throwing side. IMO The only thing that causes kids to change this natural tendency when fielding ground balls is because of being taught the age old… stay dead center in front of the ball. How many times have we heard someone yell out… “GET IN FRONT OF THAT BALL”? Not that, that is bad advice, but it does cause dead center thinking which creates a lot of balls being received throwing side of center. Maybe a better thing to say to a young shortstop would be “Get the left side of your chest in front of the ball”.

This same thinking also causes problems fielding balls to the back hand side. (Once again situation creates different technique) We see many young infielders get “handcuffed because they are trying so hard to get in front of the ball hit to their right (in the hole). Truth is, the back hand also has much more range of motion and is much easier to field with the glove when it’s not in front of the body. Not to mention, those shortstops that actually do manage to get their body somewhat in front of the ball in the hole find the momentum has put them in an impossible off balance throwing position. They would make the play much easier and at a much higher percentage, actually staying away from the ball, back handing it and be in position to throw. Of course there are situations where it is critical to keep the ball in the infield and infielders need to understand they may need to change technique at times due to those situations.

Nice post PG

My son is a shortstop and I admit, I used to yell to him to get in front of the ball It was done clearly out of ignorance. I have long since quit coaching him however.

Recently, we were in South Carolina to see him play where I hadn't seen him play since last August. I noticed clearly that they were taught to catch the ball exactly as PG describes above. Anything to the other side was backhanded. I was going to ask him about it and thought "Nah, they know what they are doing"

What kind of was an eye-opener for me, was how many ground balls they hit to a college shortstop and infielders in general everyday. Hundreds per day and I am sure this number increases at the pro levels. I got tired just watching them hit them ball after ball.

Great stuff PG. Some of us just say it better. As for bad hops, to the right, coming right at it. In the center, momentum going thru the ball. Hop goes left, momentum takes the fielder right to it. As Jerry says, its more about glove angle and soft hands. I also have to say that I see very few young players learning this technique and its always a job at the high school level to drill them and have them understand it.

Here's a link to video clips that PG provided for us.

http://www.baseballwebtv.com/Uploads/RickTestWebSite/Ri...NationalInfield.html

Is it just me or does it seem like many of them are fielding the ball in the center of the body and in some cases to the right instead of on the left as many have suggested?

Beezer,

Don't have time to watch that, but already know you are correct. Even a lot of the very best high school players haven't been taught correctly. You won't see it as much at the major college level. You will hardly ever see it at the professional level.

Because of what we do, we see it all the time, but there is no time to correct flaws at one of these events. We just see what the players can do.

PG - Interesting. And my comment wasn't meant to be sarcastic towards anybody. I was watching it and it kept pausing and the phone kept ringing so there were many interruptions as I watched. So I was just making an observation.

If the "best" HS players do it improperly (for the most part), I'd think it would be a hard habit to break when advancing to college. BUT I guess they'd be athletic enough to adapt?

Does anybody have a college or MLB clip?

PG - I noticed that there's a number like "3.5" listed by itself. Is that their GPA?

you guys are complicating it. I played ss in college, scouted 15 years, coached five years HS and JUCO in south florida and its obvious many of you have never played the position. Ozzie Smith preaches to catch the ball on the left instep. Also says stay behind the ball. Typically this pertains to throwing to get into the proper throwing position but also can be used in fielding. i know most of you teach to get your weight on the balls of your feet. I t meerly depends on the path of the ball. Its about balance. Not to much weight forward, backward or sideward. I agreee sometimes fielding a ball in front of your can handcuff you but thats usually due to a bad hop or a missplay. usually the later. with proper balance you may have to lay out and cross over and go lateral. at times to get in even quicker throwing position you can backhand a ball right at you, fingers down, throwing hand under glove for immediate transition to your throwing hand. the old addage get if front of the ball is not incorrect except that kids don't have proper hand or footwork. bad reps form bad habits. remember left instep if you can, go right to the ball when you can, circle the ball at times (slow hit ball to the backhand). it all depends on the situation, the complexity of the play, and if the fielder needs to get into throwing and fielding position at the same time to speed up the play.

Brewers,

I think most of what you've said we would all agree with. What is it that we are making complicated?

What was your need to say "You guys are complicating it... It's obvious many of you have never played the position."

My thought is... It seems obvious that you know quite a bit about this subject. Please keep posting, but please don't treat people as being stupid!

This is not a battle to see who has the best credentials or the most knowledge. We just try to help each other at times. However, someone with your experience is more than welcome to help. I just don't understand why people need to be combative or disrespectful.

I see way to many kids that just move barehand side of ball and then step into ball to field it and throw. Big problem!

By doing this they have put more emphasis on staying back and not charging balls. High school kids don't read hops, they don't read the speed of the ground balls. They just step to their barehand side and then step into ball and field it. Still very little momentum. It doesn't matter if there is an 80 runner in the box (on an 80 scale) they still stay back and step to barehand side and step to ball to field it. Fielding a groundball should encompass who the hitter is and how well he runs and then reading the speed of the ball hit and the moving to the ball to get the right hop and fielding with their movement going towards 1st base so they can maximize their accuracy and arm strength when throwing to 1st base.

Major league infielders are almost flat footed (55/45 pressure) when the ball crosses the hitting zone. They have no movement forward like a left right step as the ball croses the hitting zone. The reason is so they can maximize their range.

Its the new great thing of american amatuer coaching. STAND STILL TO PLAY THE GAME BOYS. KEEP THE HEAD STILL GUYS. Makes me wanta puke!

quote:

I just don't understand why people need to be combative or disrespectful.

Jerry, Kinda like you disrespecting American Legion Baseball and AAU baseball in another thread? PG isn't the only place to find a player!

Vance,

It's becoming more and more apparent that you might have some sort of agenda. Get off your high horse and show me where I disrespected American Legion Baseball. We are one of the major sponsors of this years Legion World Series.

Facts are facts not disrespect. Note that I did not mention anything when AABC was brougt up. If you are following me around your wasting your time. My reputation is not one of being combative unless driven in that direction. I seldom even post in the thread that pertains most to us.

My interest is in promoting baseball and trying to help people. You on the other hand have PROVEN to be combative. Perhaps we should take a vote in order to see what everyone thinks.

I don't know who you are. I can tell that you have a lot of knowledge. I don't understand why you have replied negatively several times to my posts. That's what makes me feel that it's obviously an agenda.

By the way... Not once... will you find a single post I've EVER made that reads anything like "It's obvious many of you have never played the position." I appreciate the very good advice you have to offer. I respect the good solid advice that you and everyone with experience and knowledge gives here.

I dislike the BS agenda you seem to have.

If you have a problem with me please contact me rather than hide behind the name Vance! I think that would clear up this picture.

You can spout off anything you want and not have to pay. Let's level the playing field!!!!

YES PG IS NOT THE ONLY PLACE TO FIND A PLAYER!!!! I've said it a thousand times in the past on this site. In fact, we find players at many other events. For one, we found several at the SUN BELT CLASSIC in Oklahoma earlier this month.

agenda? what about your constant PG is the greatest and every kid drafted is a PG kid?

Vance,

Please take the time to research what you are claiming. Your starting to piss me off and you are LYING!!!

Go through the previous posts and read for ever. You could read all 1800 + posts I've made. I guarantee you will find very little PG is the greatest talk coming from me. You might find lots of PG is not Perfect remarks. You might find out a lot if you care to research it.

Please show me one instance of trying to talk someone into attending our events. Furthermore please show one single post, other than an opinion, that was untrue. I see several posts where someone comes on claiming that something is the greatest thing of all. These are so obvious when the same poster talks about nothing else. None of that comes from us!!!! You will find streaks of hundreds of posts I've made without even mentioning Perfect Game. I'm far from anything special, but your trying to make me sound like something I don't like.

For years here, I've tried to help people without doing any bragging about Perfect Game. The PM you sent me (still don't know who you are) mentioned you don't like the PG advertisements on this site. It's too bad you don't know the truth!!!

Not once have we asked for anything on this site. We do want to help it survive if we can. I told Julie it would be fine with me if there were no PG ads. We would donate to help this site without having a PG ad and we did long before there were any forum sponsors. That's the absolute truth!!!

Now, let me ask... Even if we were here for the sole purpose of promoting Perfect Game... What's your problem with it. Why is it that your so bothered by this. Somehow I believe if we knew who you were the picture would be crystal clear!!!!

Your PM doesn't even deserve a response. Tell me who you are if you got any balls at all and I'll respect that. Don't Jerry me like you know who I am while you keep your cowardly secret identity. You sound like a little jealous cry baby with nothing better to do. Get some guts!!! If you want some credibility!!!

I've met and talked with you at least 50 times. JERRY! SO now your taking the credit for this website as well. Your a GOD! as if knowing who you are makes you credible!

Thanks for helping this site survive.

Vance,

Then please reintroduce yourself. What am I taking credit for again?

I can guarantee you that there is no one on Earth who I've met 50 times that would say the things you are saying.

The credibility question wasn't about me... It was more about you. So was the lack of courage comments.

I am starting to think I know who you are!

I stated facts and you took it personal. I'm sorry that you did. You and your org. do a fine job of bringing kids together to evaluate them. Not my beef at all!

You even make some good comments about the game and your knowledge is good. But do you have to say how many kids were drafted that were PG kids? Does it matter? PG is not the reason they were drafted. That credit should go to the kid and his parents and all his coaches even the HS coaches that everyone seems to put down alot of times. A kids passion for the game would be more responsible for him being drafted.

Why not post the million kids WHO DID NOT or NEVER WILL BE drafted that attend a PG event?

I didn't say I didn't like the PG advertisment re read it.