Recently at a game, I was playing at second base. Guy on first and he steals. Our catcher throws it down to me and the runner is dead meat. What he does next is just stupid, he tries to juke me to avoid the tag (I have the tag ready for him down low). I get up, run after him and tag him in the face, doing so causes him to fall down.

Homeplate umpire yelled at me as I came into the dug out saying that I shouldnt tag that hard, which I did hard on purpose. The infield umpire told me that was a good tag, as soon as the play was over. My coach asked me why I tagged him hard, i simply told him because he was out by a mile (actually 10 feet) and he should just face it and not try to juke.

What are your guys' opinions on this?

You don't have to tag him in the face. Just tag him, and go hit when you get to the dugout.

I am all for hard tags but not to the face....unless you want to get drilled your next AB.

He was playing hard and trying to find a way to be safe. No problem with that.

i love hard tags
i play 1st base and everyone on my team laughs cuz i tag the runner so hard when he dives back on a pickoff

-not to the face tho

My son gave a leather facial to a kid who was the second one from his team to come in high. He said he owes a facial to the kid who came in so high and late last week he was spiked on the bicep deep enough to bleed and the wrist breaking his thumb (hairline fracture). We've had a couple of issues with teams unhappy they were losing to a team they deemed inferior. We were playing up. They tried intimidation on our middle infielders. Both runners were dead out except the second situation blew his glove off. Our head coach said my son won't have to wait until the guy slides into second for payback. He'll be wearing fastball first for intentionally causing an injury.

Yea that is what im trying to prove. If you are out by a long shot, and you see the throw right on the money, slide into the bag. Dont go high, or you will get punished (literally) with a slap to the face. Its a complete joke that some people try to juke you out when you have the ball. its not football.

Hard tags can have a place in the game when a play is close, but since this is the HSBASEBALLWEB, I feel it is neccesary to talk about NFHS rules that apply to HS baseball......

In NFHS (which the vast majority of HS play under) Umpires are to rule on Malicous contact and after reading a number of posts offered in this thread many of you are tightwalking that line.....and you are leaving it up to the umpire to decide whether or not you will continue to play in that game via ejection and will miss the next game due to suspension.......

This past year I ejected a first baseman for just such a tag. I was at first with no one on when a batter walked. As I was moving to the infield I heard the first baseman say to the second baseman, "watch This".........the pitcher threw over and the first baseman applied a hard tag right to the face of the runner........bloodied the nose of the runner.....

INSTANT EJECTION......for malicous contact.......everyone on his team laughed too, until they saw blood and realized their first baseman was ejected... not so funny then.

as far as runner being out by a long shot and the fielder punishing him with a hard tag.......I cant tell you how wrong that is.........a runner has the right to avoid a tag within reason and you have to apply the tag........you do your job, he is doing his........any extra will get you ejected......

As to the runner who was the second one from his team to come in high. NFHS rules on malicous contact apply to him as well and would have been or should have been called as the runner must not make any contact in a slide above the knee.....

as to the comment owing a leather facial.........this is why we call must call this rule.........if the runner had been called correctly there would be no retaliation "owed".......

grab a bat, hit the ball........play fast and lose with the rules and you will find yourself out of the game and eventually hurt your own ball club.....

Why wouldn't you do all you can to get to the bag safe? It doesn't matter how you tag him as long as you get him out.

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:
As to the runner who was the second one from his team to come in high. NFHS rules on malicous contact apply to him as well and would have been or should have been called as the runner must not make any contact in a slide above the knee.....

as to the comment owing a leather facial.........this is why we call must call this rule.........if the runner had been called correctly there would be no retaliation "owed".......

grab a bat, hit the ball........play fast and lose with the rules and you will find yourself out of the game and eventually hurt your own ball club.....

If, could have, should have .... Some umpires are better than others. If the umpires don't take control it's left to the players. It's not like my son would sucker punch a runner. The tag just keeps sweeping from the initial tag, right through the head. It looks real accidental.

The cheap shot slide that got him injured should have been called as malicious. Our head coach argued until the umpire said when he turns back around he wants to see him gone. In otherwords, "I'm about to eject you."

I understand about malicious calls not being called. My son had received the ball and had set up 2 feet in front of home in the baseline. A runner decided to leave his feet and planted both of them in my sons chest. The ump called him out because my son tagged him and held on to the ball, but he continued to play that day in that game. No repercussion what so ever.

quote:

If, could have, should have .... Some umpires are better than others. If the umpires don't take control it's left to the players. It's not like my son would sucker punch a runner. The tag just keeps sweeping from the initial tag, right through the head. It looks real accidental.

I'll give you this much, there are umpires out there who should not be doing the job.....

but all of these things you describe are malicous contact and Id eject your son or any player for doing it (especially if its taught to look real accidental).....then Im sure I hear from you that I should "let the players handle it".........which from that viewpoint is fine until someone gets hurt then they want to lay the blame on the umpires for "letting the game get out of hand".......

just my .02......

quote:

Originally posted by gunnersmom:
My son had received the ball and had set up 2 feet in front of home in the baseline. A runner decided to leave his feet and planted both of them in my sons chest.

wow! thats bush!
that kid would be dodging pitches all game if that happened in one of our games

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump: I'll give you this much, there are umpires out there who should not be doing the job.....

but all of these things you describe are malicous contact and Id eject your son or any player for doing it (especially if its taught to look real accidental).....then Im sure I hear from you that I should "let the players handle it".........which from that viewpoint is fine until someone gets hurt then they want to lay the blame on the umpires for "letting the game get out of hand".......

just my .02......

I'll tell the umpire he should have been in control from the first situation.

When we play ECTB (USSSA) tournaments and I don't see a PIAA or Legion patch on the umpire, who knows what we're going to get. The game in question was one of these. Also the worse they are, the less they're willing to discuss anything.

quote:

When we play ECTB (USSSA) tournaments and I don't see a PIAA or Legion patch on the umpire, who knows what we're going to get. The game in question was one of these.

Ive heard that about USSSA since its basis was as a predominatly softball organization.............

quote:

Also the worse they are, the less they're willing to discuss anything

This is 100 % true........

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:
Ive heard that about USSSA since its basis was as a predominatly softball organization.............

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Also the worse they are, the less they're willing to discuss anything

Ive heard that about USSSA since its basis was as a predominatly softball organization.

USSSA is a second rate softball organization in most parts of the country. The Gold standard is ASA. NSA also has some clout in the area.

ECTB switched affiliations from AAU to USSSA a couple of years ago when Sports At The Beach dropped USSSA for CABA. While it varies from region to region, USSSA tends to be the gold standard for travel baseball through 15U. The team that wins the Elite 24 in their age group is considered the best in the country.

ECTB tried to promote USSSA travel softball not realizing how entrenched ASA and NSA are in the area. It failed since no one signed up for tournaments. They didn't even realize softball doesn't have odd year travel teams (11U, 13U, 15U, etc).

Most of the tournaments in D/FW are USSSA, Super Series and a few Triple Crown. This year in Flower Mound was the First Annual AAYBA World Series for this area.

All the tournaments in this area use all the same umpires. Some are good and some are not so good. The tournament where my son was leveled was USSSA.

This past weekend we played in a non-sanctioned memorial tournament for a young girl who played USSSA boys baseball until she passed away 6 years ago. I believe our umpires were PONY.

quote:

Originally posted by TG:
My son gave a leather facial to a kid who was the second one from his team to come in high. He said he owes a facial to the kid who came in so high and late last week he was spiked on the bicep deep enough to bleed and the wrist breaking his thumb (hairline fracture). We've had a couple of issues with teams unhappy they were losing to a team they deemed inferior. We were playing up. They tried intimidation on our middle infielders. Both runners were dead out except the second situation blew his glove off. Our head coach said my son won't have to wait until the guy slides into second for payback. He'll be wearing fastball first for intentionally causing an injury.

My son had his arm broken taking a throw from the catcher on a steal at short. It was clearly a dirty slide with feet up in the air. Knocked his glove off and fractured the radial portion of his elbow socket. This happened the week before AAU nationals when he was 10.

I told him it was a dirty slide and his time would come for payback. The next time they played he hit their pitcher with a line drive off his leg. He doubled off the RF wall, and then started a 6-4-3 DP against the kid that broke his arm. The boy did come up to him after the game and apologized. Oh by the way, they also won the game and beat that team for the first time ever.

Love this game!

Hard tags that deliver a message are part of the game. However, an intentional shot to the face usually crosses the line and in this case, I think you did. My son’s summer team would settle that on the field and within the rules. The next slide at second would end with you leaving the field with help from your team trainer. That is also part of the game. At the very least, spikes hurt and at its worst, ankle or knee injuries can end a career. Don’t make yourself the target of this kind of play.

Of course, pitchers have their own code and method of retaliation… Two weeks ago, my son took a fastball to the back of the head. His only crime was hitting a monster homerun in his previous plate appearance. It's a safe bet the pitcher would be throwing at you too.

Hard tags are part of the game but if they're to the face and it's for no reason other than to send a message or to injure, he could be eating dirt in the next at-bat.

quote:

Originally posted by Line Drive:
Of course, pitchers have their own code and method of retaliation… Two weeks ago, my son took a fastball to the back of the head. His only crime was hitting a monster homerun in his previous plate appearance. It's a safe bet the pitcher would be throwing at you too.

Its a safe bet that he didnt throw at me. It wasnt actually in the face, more in the chest. As he fell down i guess it slipped his face. If I woulda got took out with a slide on the next stolen base, im sure we woulda both been out of the game, as I would make sure. Umpires even acknowledged the tag I did..