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WASHINGTON – The head of the United Auto Workers made a public plea Sunday for government help for U.S. carmakers as the Big Three put the final touches on stabilization plans to submit to Congress.

"We cannot afford to see these companies fail," said Ron Gettelfinger, the UAW chief, calling on Congress to approve the aid during a special session the week of Dec. 8.

Not sure we can afford to not see them fail....

I agree. Throwing money at them will just be throwing money away. The industry is geared to fail. They have shown no willingness to change much like the financial industry.
Any bailout should come with huge strings.ropes attached. Personally I think chapter 11 is the better solution and have the govt back the car warranties if needed. Get rid of the fat cats that have run the company into the ground and reduce the labour costs. It is a complicated mess in both countries.
The big three have huge labor problems. The culture in these plants is horrible. If you are a good worker the others will put pressure on you to slow down and not screw the job up. It is no wonder they are turing to machines to do the work.

It's obvious since the execs leading the big three have been failing for years, at the very least, these guys have to go. The era of big American cars is over, but somehow Detroit doesn't get it. Their refusal to give up the lame marketing of big luxury trucks is mind numbing.

I certainly wouldn't give the big 3 exec's a pat on the back. But, what they are stuck with that the foreign makers building in the US don't are union contracts. The US makers have no chance of running a viable company without going through bankruptcy to break those union contracts.

Think of it this way...the big 3 are putting a product on the baseball field similar to the Texas Rangers...yet they have the payroll of the Yankees. Giving them more money to maintain the same product/payroll doesn't work. Payroll has to come down because they will not be able to sell their way out of this thru higher volume sales.

The interesting thing is that the democratic controlled house and presidency won't want to allow that "union busting" direction.

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I think they have that sinking feeling...

That must be the union in the back seat laughing and having a good time......

OK let's blame the worker's, Let's Blame the Union's who fought for the right's of worker's to make a living wage.
A living wage so we can buy all the thing's that they want to try to sell us.
Who's buying the products now, China?, Russia? Japan?
Yes Labor is exspensive.
If bread was 5cent's a loaf, I would lower my wages.
EH

Uhhhh...UAW workers are at $67/hour vs. appx $40/hour for Honda's US plants. How exactly are the big 3 supposed to make that work when by all standards the foreign plants here in the US are making better products.

It's just like everyone else in the world...produce or else. Bankruptcy is coming EH...it's just a matter of if the Gov't burns through billions before it happens. The union contracts are going to get broken and dramatically downsized. The model in place today doesn't match demand...cost structure doesn't work and too much capacity.

quote:

I certainly wouldn't give the big 3 exec's a pat on the back. But, what they are stuck with that the foreign makers building in the US don't are union contracts. The US makers have no chance of running a viable company without going through bankruptcy to break those union contracts.

I work for a Foreign auto maker, Were a union company.
Do you think for one minute that the Foreign Company's are here without the big 3's blessing.
Thats what they want? To bust the Union's.

Why??
So they can have 2, 3, maybe 10 jets.
The worker's of this country deserve better.
EH

clearly they have wanted to break their contract...not the union...for years. I think the big 3 would be thrilled to have the same deal Honda has for their US plants.

Well I have to go to work, and start the plant up after the Holidays.
I have 5000 union worker's counting on me to have that plant up and running by the time they start working at 6:00am.

EH

No offense intended, EH, but the economic writing is on the wall.

No offense taken.
Let's just not start the blame game on the economy.
Its a problem that will effect us all.
And it will need to be fixed by us all.
EH

If we analyze the VERY COMPLEX thing we call "THE ECONOMY" we soon realize we can place blame on many people even down to those people working for a "working wage". For years we have been preaching that baseball teaches us a lot about life. If that's true let's apply that to today's economic situation. The "tournament" we're in is the global economy and we play for the USA team. We have umpires, managers, and coaches and players owners and fans.
Personally I think it comes down to the players (workers) with the most dedication, the best work ethic, the better honed skills, most educated, that will win the game. Others might think it's the managers (management) that with their shrewd manipulation of getting the "right" dugout, putting this player here or that player there will control the outcome. Others could say its the umpire (politician) that determines who wins. Rule book? Let's say the rule book is/are the rules we want our children to live by. How do you see this ball game?
Fungo

By no means do I think the UAW is the big 3's only problem. One of them...but they have many others and have had for years. You would know that more than I, EH. I can't help but think the problems they are facing now sound an awfully lot like those in the late 80s when I lived in Motown. And I certainly don't blame the big 3 for our economic problems. I think they are largely unrelated but have been exposed now because of the credit crunch.

I think our economic problems now are more financial than anything else. Our economy has lived on credit (consumers have spent more than they have earned for a while now...net negative savings). Drunken bankers keep lending to people/businesses that can't afford it...then all of a sudden shut it off. So they quit spending, then tighten things more because of gas prices, then businesses panic and must lay off because people are not buying and their banks won't lend. We seem to be in an economy "right sizing".

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How do you see this ball game?

Great analogy Fungo. At this rate it's bound to get ugly.

Cubs fans

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How exactly are the big 3 supposed to make that work when by all standards the foreign plants here in the US are making better products.

Tx Husker, that's what it's all about isn't it.

Sure is...that's why I said it's a produce or else world. It's one thing if you're an inferior product but less expensive...there's a market for those products (Kia). But inferior product that's more expensive (or costs the same and the company takes it out of the shareholders pocket in the form of less profit) simply can't go on forever.

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The future is now...less the cupholders of course!

That thing looks like it can turn on a dime. Wonder what the 0-60 time is...and where did they hide those airbags....

I live in a GM town. 2 large plants and several support industries. I have seen the GM work force drop from 12,000 to approx 1500. Everyone predicted doom and gloom but that has not been the case. Our GM gyys get over $75.hr. The workers have a hard time finding new jobs because no one will hire them because ofr the work culture they come from. I talked to a friend who just took early buyout and he said it is horrible what has happened to the work ethic. Line guys swearing at the foremen and ostersizing guys who try to do their job.
I had a partner years ago and he worked in the auto industry. It was shameful what he did. He would go to the bathroom and fall asleep for hours. They finally fired him after years of BS like days off because he felt sick . He would be off to the bars at night. I finally had to break the partnership up and he went bust in a few months. I went on for 14 years without him. I talked to his union rep at a party and he said he was glad he lost his case. The reason he was glad is because he held up the piece work and other workers turned against him.
I have been around CAW guys for 40+ years, in fact most of the BB coaches were auto workers. They used to leave the plant and have their buddies sign them out. One guy would slip out and coach the game and then slip back in 2 1/2 hours later.
I used to deliver rubber part to GMK and form as a summer job while at college. I remember waiting for guys to off load my parts and one time I lifted a box onto the dock. Faster than a speeding bullet I was told off and said if I did it again I would be there until the morning. I also used to shovel coke out of fornaces at the Union Carbide Co as a student and I worked so hard that I was told I was screwing the job up by union workers and to slow down or else. They ended up giving me a job I couldn't screw it up I have many experiences with unionized labour. I feel sorry for the hard working guys who have to tow the union line. It is no an easy life working in a plant on shifts but it is coming to an end by its own self destruction. In fact if it wasn't for cheap easy credit this would have happened years ago. In Canada we have propped our sales with cheap credit and a devalued dollar. That is why our guys get $75/hr and are less productive when the dollar rises to the level of the US dollar.