I previously shared some thoughts on what has helped our sons arrive to the point they have. Today, I'm pondering what makes some teams achieve success and others not.

This question is on my mind because my daughter's HS volleyball team has just won their 5th tournament this season. They've lost one game their entire year so far. One very good player that will be impossible to replace. However, not a team of superstars! I'm amazed at their success every single week! Are exceeding most people's expectations.

On the flipside, in my son's HS senior year, his team was nationally ranked, had been state runner the year before, had a first round draft pick...... They only went as far as regional tournament. Did not meet most people's expectations.

What happens... how do those teams come out of nowhere and win it all? Should we 'expect' certain things out of teams?

Lafmom,...great post! I for one want to hear what others say.

Funny small-world coincidence side note: I was thinking similiar thoughts like yours today. My daughters Jr. High volleyball team won a huge tournament today. Over 10 teams from all over participating. Being so young, not one girl is a real super star yet, their coach is young and not too experienced, yet these group of girls completely dominated today. It was almost surreal. We've played decent this season, but haven't won them all. I wonder what the "magic key" or " magic element " was for today???? I've heard people say " they were in the zone ", or " they we're in their element ", or " its because they ate their wheaties this morning " (ha! ) But to have 13 girls, ( we brought both the A team and B team and substituted regularly so all could get a feel for the game ),...all gel at the same time??? I'm still replaying the day over and over again in my head.
Were we the favorites to win? Nope.
Did we expect to come out in first,
..." uh,....like totally noooooo". ( quote from a 13 year old teen-age girlie girl )

Yet here we are staring at the trophy and medal. Wow,....how did we get here? Strange how things happen,...cant always figure it out.

All I know is I have one super-duper, grinning from ear-to-ear, curly haired 13 year old daughter,..who is sleeping like an angel,...with her medal by her bed, & is happy as a lark tonight. I'm so greatful for little precious happy life moments. Not sure how they came to be ( from a technical perspective ),..but very greatful!
The life lessons that come from playig on a team sport,...you just cant put a price on it!

I was just at my daughter's 7th grade volleyball games the other day and was very pleased how she played. Volleyball is a great sport imho. Too bad most highschools no longer have men's volleyball.

Anyhoo...back to the topic...probably what I have to say on the topic has been posted before but oh well...here goes...

First, Ohio State has a very successful head coach who toiled for years and years at a lesser school before finally getting his chance at OSU. The first thing he said when taking over the team was the most important thing he had to do was to get each player to "Think/care more about the group than the individual." That thought stuck with me. If you listen to Troy Smith - their outstanding quarterback, talk now, it is all about his teammates - never mentions himself. Never thought he would develop this way considering how rocky things started out for him at OSU....

Here is a story I have told before but it is appropriate to retell here and rambles somewhat....

When I first met lafmom, we found we had lots in common. Both our sons had just come off of great seasons - losing their final games in the State Championships for Kentucky and Ohio respectively. In her son's case, they had a young, talented team that had a magical season that may have possibly exceeded expectations given their youth. The following year, they were obviously the favorites to win it all yet it didn't happen unfortunately....

In my son's case, he had to battle as a junior to get playing time on a team that was nationally ranked and expected to win the State Championship. When they lost their last game in the State Finals, you felt like you were attending a wake. You felt like they had their chance and it was never going to happen again for the school. The team graduated every player except one.

The following season, I told that one returning player I was going to grade his season not by how he performed individually but how the team performed collectively. Obviously, expectations were low to begin the season yet, unbelievably, that team made another run back to the State Championships. Needless to say, that one player got an A+ from his Dad.

This past spring, the team returned many players from the previous year and expectations were again much higher to begin the season. The team never made it past the district final this year however. To be honest, it crossed my mind that the leadership on the 2006 team had changed and maybe that is why things didn't go their way. There is luck in baseball but there is a fine line between winning and losing sometimes. I think the best teams win - not necessarily the teams with the best players. If anyone followed the Illinois Forum this year, there were many who predicted a White Sox return to the WS. It will not happen this year. Why? IMHO, they don't play as well as a "team" as they did the previous year.

I have to give the credit to the coach and his staff in situations where the talent may be average but the team continues to win. A great coach has the ability to motivate and to bring out the best in his players. “The best” is not always the ability to hit a curve ball or execute a kill on the vollyball court but also the ability to be a team player. CD, you mention Ohio State’s new head coach and his “team” philosophy. Could it be that Troy Smith’s actions are the fruits of Coach Tressler’s philosophy? There will always be the Maurice Clarettes of the world that no coach can do anything with (other than release them)!!

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If anyone followed the Illinois Forum this year, there were many who predicted a White Sox return to the WS. It will not happen this year. Why? IMHO, they don't play as well as a "team" as they did the previous year.

CD, I started to post that exact same thing as an example of my thoughts. I've followed those threads as well, from the beginning of the year to now, where they're ready to string up Ozzie. What's the difference there? Attitudes possibly. Some of what we discussed in your Marlins thread.

I do think a Coach can make all the difference as Fungo says, between supplying that charge for a team that really shouldn't achieve great success to allowing them to play with mediocrity.

I'm also reminded of UK's Basketball team last year. Same coach that had inspired lesser talented teams to perform exceedingly well before couldn't do so last year... not that they were loaded or that my personal expectations were for a final four team. My personal expectations never materialized though. The "team" could rarely play like one.

Well, on a selfish note.... I hope my volleyball girls continue to amaze me!! On the note of being a team, my own daughter rarely plays. She's content with her role, happy to be around this group of girls and certainly enjoying the winning!

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I think the best teams win - not necessarily the teams with the best players.

Perhaps this is the key and it has nothing to do with Wheaties after all!

Daughter realized after not being on the starting 6 roster for a particular game,...sniffing,..eyes watery with tears, talking about a mile per minute,...

" Well,..I'm just going to have to prove my abilities better in practice. Can we go to the gym this weekend mom and practice my serves? And oh yeah,..can we go to Walmart and buy ribbons,..the girls are going to need matching bows so we all, even us on the bench, can look like a team!! Can I call " so and so " and " so and so" so we can practice our set patterns and we need to go over our chants so we can yell together the loudest from the bench. The starting 6 NEEEEEEEEED to like, totally hear us loud and good so they know weve got their backs!".

My answer,...grinning,...as I realized that I for once, didn't have to make the tears go away,..she was working it out herself,....
" Sure kiddo " I replied,.." Lets go get some gatorade too for em ",.... ( and perhaps a set of ear pluggs for the momma! ha! )

Pitter patter goes this mommas heart.

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CD, you mention Ohio State’s new head coach and his “team” philosophy. Could it be that Troy Smith’s actions are the fruits of Coach Tressle’s philosophy? There will always be the Maurice Clarettes of the world that no coach can do anything with (other than release them)!!

Fungo - I absoulutely believe Troy Smith is a product of great coaching and specifically from Coach Tressel and his philosophy. He had several dicipline problems and it looked like his career could have gone another way. At some point, Troy Smith gets credit in all this too. He grew up and turned into the leader you see today.

Why one kid turns out like Troy Smith and another turns out like Maurice Clarette is one of those great mysteries in life - especially considering the unbelievable talents that Clarette was blessed with

ssmom - your daughter has learned things on her own that some people never learn their whole lives. You should be very proud of her

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I have to give the credit to the coach and his staff in situations where the talent may be average but the team continues to win. A great coach has the ability to motivate and to bring out the best in his players.

I have to agree 100% here. Also, I'd like to add into the equation "team chemistry"....but I also think that is a byproduct of a good coach and his staff when he takes that into consideration as a factor when evaluating recruits.

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And oh yeah,..can we go to Walmart and buy ribbons,..

Shortstopmom...so THAT is how you found those baseball jack-o-lanterns! They were sitting next to the ribbons on that Walmart shelf! Nice to see you dropping by our forum here! Welcome!

Cleveland dad,...you made me smile. Thank you!
( a mom and a teen age daughter can be a wild combo at times,..and there are days when I want to pull my hair out,..but because she is my third, I have learned that its the little special moments,....the quick instances that my mind remembers mostly down the road.) I try to take those in and tuck them in a little pocket of my heart.
Of course on the days that I am freaking out that she has wont get off the phone and do her homework...has wet towels laying on top of name brand $$$ clothing items,..or has taken MY mascara and hair brush for the 3075th bazillionth time,...I dont always remember whats in the pocket in my heart! ha!

Luvvbb,....you made me giggle!!! And I thank you toooo!!!!!

An interesting question, and I know exactly where Lafmom is coming from with this. Her daughter's role on the volleyball team is the same as my son's role was on that baseball team she mentioned that made it to the state final. It's easier to observe things when you know your kid isn't coming off the bench in a clutch situation. :-)

From the beginning of that year (it was my son's freshman year), I saw a team where people knew what they needed to do, but that also accepted roles that they didn't start the year with. I think that's important with any successful team. I also saw a team that didn't treat younger players with disdain. If Coach thought you were good enough to be on varsity, then that was good enough for them. I also saw a team that did teeny little things that helped them win. Whether that was making sure that a bunt went to the correct side, or that a throw went to the right base, they did little things right, and they did them right virtually all the time.

That spirit did carry on to the next year, but it's harder when the expectations are so much higher, and the distractions are so much greater. However, that second year, that team taught the younger players just as much. In the high school realm what is also important about a team is what the older players teach the younger ones.

My son finally got to play in one of those playoff games last year, and when he got his chance, he played well and did what he needed to do to help his team win, just like he had been taught by those older players. However, his team lost by one run in a hard fought game. He played hard, but he took defeat with grace and poise. That is the best legacy older players can leave younger ones. Teach them how to win, AND how to lose.

lafmom,
What a great topic!

I often think about this, what makes a team win, there are so many variables that can affect team dynamics.

good leadership
good coaching
low expectations
high expectations
chemistry
talent


First year son was in college, there were fewer expectations for them going to Omaha due to them being so young. Good leadership, good chemistry, good coaching, talent. They played with their hearts to prove everyone wrong and came one game short of Omaha.

Second year, team is ranked #1. Good coaching, better chemistry, older talented players. Lots of pressure, higher expectations, struggle to win many games, nothing came easy, they played their hearts out to get to Omaha. If there was a loss the fans acted like it was doomsday.

The only factor that was differnt was in the expectations.

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However, that second year, that team taught the younger players just as much.

That's nice to hear John. I do believe that a legacy that is with Lafayette baseball is that the players respect the older kids and the younger kids. Michael graduated in '05 but continues to hear from and communicate with kids that graduated years before him as well as the ones that are still there. That goes beyond winning.

TPM - I agree wholeheartedly.... it goes so far beyond talent. Many dynamics to being successful. But as John points out, I suspect there are many ways to be considered successful.

Good thoughts folks!

Great post so far. I would say there are many variables that go into making a good team that might be a winning team but I think they can be boiled down to 4 catagories [none of which is more important than the other] all are vital to success.

1. individual talent for the game
2. Knowledgable and fair coaches
3. Good leadership/chemistry
4. teamwork; the willingness to sacrifice individual glory for the betterment of teh team.

TW344

The most important things that help a team win are hard work in practice (you practice like you play), leadership and bringing up the standard of the team, a refusal to lose, a refusal to quit, and then basic fundamentals. I've always felt that it's attitude and the basics that are the biggest keys. If the team shares in a common goal and works hard enough, and you can combine that with talent...you'll have at least some success.

Obviously you need pitching, talented gloves, some natural hitting abilities, and basic instincts. But, baseball is one of those games that outside observers underappreciate because of how mental the game truly is.

Nate - very nice post

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attitude and the basics that are the biggest keys.

Nate, I think that is a very big factor. I've recently posted elsewhere about a college player that apparently had his scholly removed. The kid had everything that it took to eventually be drafted. I know for a fact (at least this is what a scout told me) that the kid wasn't promoted by local scouts because of attitude problems he'd had. Well, after a significant freshman year at a DI as a starter, he's been cut. Apparently attitude again!! All the talent in the world won't get you somewhere if the attitude stinks.... or at least the odds won't be in your favor!