There have been several posts over the last few months dealing with what we parents have sacrificed, pros and cons of showcases, is HS ball important, etc. A dad ask me a question last night in the chat room of "when did I know my son would play college ball". Those thoughts have made me think about what has made our kids successful? Whether your son just made his HS freshman team, is a DI starter, or a pro player. There's always someone else hoping to be in his shoes. What got him there? What has contributed to that success? Please feel free to post regardless of where you're from.

Lafmom,
A very good question. A question that every parent and player should answer so every young player with hopes of moving to the next level and his parents can get some ideas of why things happen. First I think it should be said that getting there, and staying after you get there, are two different things. We as parents can do a lot to help before they get there but it becomes their responsibility after they get there. To me talent is necessary but not to the extent a young player thinks it is. To me the two most important aspects of getting to the next level are desire and work ethic. These two things cannot be disguised. They become obvious on and off the field. Desire and work ethic are the main ingredients that make a player better. They make a player a competitor. They make a player coachable. They make a player’s talent come to the surface. They make a player focus on the things a ball player needs to focus on.
Can you develop desire and work ethic? I think so. You don’t do it hitting fungos or catching bullpens. You have to sit down with your son and help his young mind understand the importance of setting goals and working toward those goals. You explain there are no free rides. You explain the rewards for hard work. You devise different games that camouflages your goal and makes it into something fun. You make practices fun. You plan his path to the next level and you bite your tongue when he fails to follow “your” plan. At some time he starts to see the results of hard work and sacrifice. Somehow…. at sometime (as he matures)….. Your goal and his goal become one in the same. This happens not because it’s a baseball thing…it happens because you’re his parent.
Now that you’ve instilled all this desire and work ethic into little Johnny, what do you do to get him to the next level? Simply put, you have to market him. You make him visible. You do this with showcases, teams, and camps. Marketing your son is no different than marketing your automobile. You place it in front of the buyers. You polish it, and make sure you’ve done everything you can to make it what the buyers want. Not every buyer will be impressed with your “product” but the more buyers that see him the better his chances of becoming their property. You can sell your car by putting a handwritten sign under the wiper and park it in your yard and someone might happen by but....to make sure you sell it at a good price you have to do more. There are cars and there are players that will garner looks and inquires just by being in public but these are few and far between. Every time I drive my ’74 Stingray around someone will ask if it’s for sale…only because it’s unique. Same goes for some players.
Once the offers start coming in (remember, you only need one) you still need to help. Look at the rosters. Look up the history of the players. Look up the curriculum at the school. If your son wants your input make sure you give it. If he doesn’t want your input be sure to give it anyway! You may have criteria as a parent or as a family ($$$) that may need to be considered. Once the decision has been made you can breathe easy and become his biggest fan, his main supporter, and his bank.
Best of luck.
Fungo

Fungo, You took some of my very thoughts and expressed them very well as usual. When a dad asked the question of "when did I know my son would play in college", my reply was I always knew. I didn't know that because of his ability (I'm mom and not a good judge of that), but because of his heart. I think that's one of the most important things in life to be successful in anything. My son's and other players that I have followed have had success in ball due in great part to that drive and work ethic that you refer to. I think that is something that most of the boys I've followed have in common. Again, I think that's a key component for anyone to be successful (which means continuing to improve and learn) in whatever they choose.

You've expanded on my thoughts as well. The car analogy is a great one. While I feel the "heart factor" is key, there's obviously some other pieces of the puzzle that we as parents have to make sure are available - support, lessons, exposure, and support. We have to "buy in" to their dream and I don't just mean dollars when I say that.

Fungo,

This is the high-water mark for our forum. A wonderful question by lafmom invoked a wonderful response. I love metaphors and you came up with some good ones. I also had a hunch you liked sports cars in addition to your 4x4's.

I have been plotting with lafmom for a long time on how to build our forum into an alternative place from the mainboards that is notably more laidback and thought-provoking. Your post certainly achieved that goal. I guess if you design a good topic as she has people will come and contribute (e.g, if you build it, they will come?).

Here is one thought I have to contribute. I would highlight the term competitor above all other terms. Without this in your nature, you cannot perform at your peek when it counts. Luck plays a part as well, but I like the phrase "The harder you work, the luckier you get" I think there is a natural talent for the game that is required along with the hard work it takes to develop it properly.

ClevelandDad,
Good point. I agree that the player has to be a competitor and maybe that’s the one thing that sets them apart from the other players. Every parent sees some things in their son at a very young age that no one else sees. Lafmom said she ALWAYS knew her son would go to the next level and after thinking about that, maybe it was that competitor in him that made her think that. Could it be that parents know what their son wants before he even begins to understand the scope of playing at the next level? I think they do. I talk about setting “my” goal for my son and that sound as if I devised a plan for him to do what “I” wanted him to do. Not so. I devised a plan for him to accomplish what I KNEW he wanted.
It’s is a thin line between going all out and helping your son pursue his dream of playing sports vs. pushing him onto the field to play a game you want him to play. I’ve often wondered if I was just the run of the mill “pushy” parent with rose colored glasses that got lucky (like you said we all need a little luck) and had a competitive son that could play baseball.
I’m convinced the “parental push” can be the most important thing a competitive player needs to succeed but it can also be disgusting and arrogant if the player is not a competitor. Again, a very good point.
Fungo

I think the "term" push here is being used somewhat losely. I see a player's desire first, and that fosters the parent's ambition to help them succeed. I am sure everyone here has seen the parent that tries to "push" the player lacking true baseball desire or ambition. I have not seen that type of player succeed over the long term.

On the other hand, when you see that kernel of talent and desire that no one else sees early on, you become a facilitator. I think I like the term facilitate better than push. Thus, you may ask your son if he wants to go to the batting cages after the pro football game on Sunday. Of course, either yes or no is an acceptable answer to the question. You know as the parent of one of these players what the answer is very likely going to be however. Since yes or no is an acceptable answer to the question, you cannot - by definition, be a parent who pushes.

Another aspect I forgot to mention about competitors above is that they are better equipped to deal with failure. Baseball is the ultimate game of failure. I mentioned the other day to someone how do you think Brad Lidge and his parents felt after he gave up the game winning home run to Pujols the other night. I saw Lidge's response after the game and he gave the only response you can give. We'll go after them tomorrow night and get it done then. You have to be willing to get after it even when things don't go your way.

These are some wonderful thoughts gentlemen. I think CD your terms of "push" vs "facilitate" are right on. I think that is exactly what Fungo is saying as well. While, I'm sure there are exceptions (there always are to everything), I think for the most part the successful kids in baseball haven't been pushed. I think their parents (like the two of you) have done what was within their power to "facilitate" their dream. That includes getting them to the HS level as well as the pro level. We had this conversation in the general forum once about the kids that have the parental support vs the ones that don't. It seems like a no brainer to me that any kid with the talent, but also the desire/heart is going to have more options/chances if he has a parent to take him to practice, to buy the new glove that's needed, or pay for a lesson, etc. If you look at the kids that don't have the parental involvement - which kid stands a stronger chance of making it - the kid with talent, but no real desire or the kid with the huge heart that knows what he wants. I think both kids could get discouraged, but I think the player that has the heart and desire the size of an SUV may very well battle the odds.

When I think about my own son, he was far more successful at the HS level with baseball than academics. I can tell you I feel like I never pushed a day in his life as far as baseball (I did support though) and I "pushed" just about everyday with his grades along with giving him support in that arena. His baseball "stats" far outweighed his "GPA". I always recognized the baseball passion, but also always had serious worry when he was younger about the academics side as he never seemed to have any passion/work ethic about his grades despite all of my "pushing" and "facilitating". My son's chemistry teacher told me a story last year of how he felt the first time he saw Michael on a baseball field. This guy came in early to tutor, communicated with me, etc. doing everything he could to help son pull a decent grade out of the year. He said he went to the baseball coach after the game and asked if Michael was always like that on the field. The coach assured him that he was. Chemistry teacher was amazed at the two different kids he witnessed. Desire and the willingness to do what it takes are key in anything and everything IMO - baseball, marriage, job, cleaning my house this afternoon!

lafmom,

That is why this thread is so interesting. Maybe pushing is also based on your perspective. But, I think when you have to push someone, the results are generally way different than when you are a partner there to help them. I'll be the first to admit that with grades, two of my kids did not need pushed and I got excellent results from them. The third had no desire for school and yes, I did push him with all my might. The results were poor. I guess this supports my point about pushing and you used a classic example of grades to highlight that. Without the underlying desire for an activity, the parents efforts at pushing for the activity are likely not going to succeed imho.

You Ohio-ans always have the best topics! (I was born in Delaware, Ohio, so I am really a Buckeye)but at the moment, I am "hunkered down" in Central Florida waiting for the wrath of Wilma. While I still have electricity, I will contribute my version of my sons' story...Baseball was always a great source of joy for my son, even when he wasn't real good at it. In first grade he once wrote that the thing he liked best about his Mom was...that she plays baseball with me. We'd go to the TBall fields and play baseball. WE'd have a catch at the spring training games. I wore his catching gear and put a big pillow with home plate drawn on it in front of me for a target when he threw too hard for me to catch. Baseball was just always a part of his/our life. It was the "push" that drove him to good grades-WIth out the grades, he could not play baseball. It was a much better facilitater than I could ever be. One day he woke up, he was 15 and he was pitching in the JOs in Jupiter and he was fanning kids at 91 mph. He made the Olympic finals and went to Phoenix to try and make the team. He didn't, but realized that he could play with the best ball players in the country. Scouts and recruiters saw this too and the rest of the ride was alot of fun. He has always worked very hard at school and baseball because he always had to. The big, strong kids that were so successful at an early age that kept him on the bench, got left behind, because they never had to work to get better. Once he saw he "could make it", he started working even harder. Sitting out last summer with a fractured back made him realize that he didn't want to be without it. We have been so blessed with "being in the right place", having the right coaches/role models, etc. Even missing all the showcases this summer may have worked to his favor, because the previous attention he was getting was so overwhelming that I'm not sure he would have made the same college choice. He may have become enamored with a bigger name that would not have been as good of a fit as his final choice seems to be.
Knock on wood...the journey so far has been awesome!
And,I truly appreciate all the help I have received from this website.

Great posts by everyone.

I’ve told this story before, but here it is again. It is a good true story that may educate others. I know it sure taught me a few things.

We had three sons, at a young age the oldest was a basketball player, next came a very talented baseball player, the youngest (by 5 years) was not very athletic.

The middle son, I knew was going to be very good at a young age and he loved it. I didn’t do anything special except teach him the game. He became all-state, all American, and played in the Cincinnati Reds organization.

Because I worked in baseball and more because the middle brother was a star player, the youngest son became interested in baseball. He just wasn’t very talented, but that never stopped him. At age 13 he was the “worst” player on his team, but he really enjoyed it. He also told me that he planned to play in the Major Leagues some day.

Knowing better, but trying to keep his dream somewhat alive I told him his goal should be to first play baseball in high school and then in college. Whatever was meant to happen will happen and it would be a great accomplishment to play in college.

Of course at the time I was just hoping he would someday get a college education and really didn’t think he would get good enough to actually play in college. Also told him… He needed to concentrate on pitching… (He couldn’t hit or field… but he did have a good arm!)

Well he did concentrate on pitching and he got better. I helped him as much as possible, but never spent much money taking him anywhere. Doubt it would have helped anyway. Did spend time whenever possible. I kind of thought HE was wasting his time concentrating on baseball so much. But it was better than getting into trouble and he really loved it!

By the time he was a tall skinny junior in high school he was throwing in the 80s and had developed a good curve ball. As a senior he had one college (juco) offer, only because his older brother attended that juco. Obviously no draft possibilities coming out of high school. He still insisted he was going to play in the Big Leagues, but under my breath… I knew better!... Just wasn’t going to tell him!

To make a long story a lot shorter… the kid who was the worst player on his 13 year old team and just so-so in high school at age 17… was pitching in Bank One Ball Park in front of nearly 50,000 fans against the Houston Astros at age 22.

I didn’t sacrifice a thing other than my truthful opinion! The thing that got him to the Big Leagues was his own persistence and dedication. He did it himself and for that I am extremely proud! And grateful for the education!

Now I don’t discount anyone who has a dream, believes in themselves and is willing to work hard. I've seen first hand that nearly anything is possible!

PGStaff,
I've read that before and it still gives me goose bumps.
Thanks,
Fungo

Pg,

That is truly a classic. It makes you wonder sometimes about talent evaluation. Sometimes different people see different things I guess.

puma - great story as well! We will keep repeating this - everyone is welcome here regardless if there is a state connection or not. Look forward to meeting you and Nick.

I broke my back in three places two years ago so I know how painful that injury is. I have been promising to tell the full scoop this winter but it was a fluke injury. I broke it while going out to catch salmon off the coast south of Seattle. Our small boat crashed a wave and I landed hard on my tail bone. To this day, some people have a hard time believing I broke my back while fishing

quote:

Our small boat crashed a wave and I landed hard on my tail bone.

CD, you need some of those history revisionists types to rewrite that story.

Probably sound like this from Texas.....a 78 lb. striper pulls man overboard, caught on 6 lb. test with, 12 feet of line left, onto the fish's back and then up against the wall of the D A M (dam is not a bad word) at Lake Fork.

Hope that helps.

PG - that is such a great story. I think that it illustrates the point again that hard work, dedication, and "heart" can get one places they want to go. To watch a kid that has the courage to tackle something when they may not have the same options out of the gate as their competitors is tremendously heartwarming. I'm with Fungo - gives me goosebumps.

FO -

OK - There is no Michigan forum so I have to get adopted in here with the sane folks...

Fungo - you always are on the mark..
We didn't push, we didn't need to, but we did need to teach. As an adult you have a broader perspective on life and that view is what we are trying to "teach". We talk a lot about goals - every season he writes goals on the mirror in his room so he see them every day
- about consequences, avoid the life altering mistakes, - about being humble and working hard
The other important thing we are talking about is "the process". You never really "make it", you are always somewhere in the process, with things behind you and things ahead of you.

A lot of great stories going on this thread. I can see some of my son in each of them. I think desire and competiveness are a big part of who he is. Those, his father nor I contributed to. I can remember him as a little red headed, freckle faced little tyke getting off the phone and telling me the big boys wanted him to come and play ball with them. Guess they needed an extra body on the field so off his older brother and he would go for just a fun game of ball, no parents, no coaches, just a group of kids getting together for some fun. Even now, so many yrs. later the older kids who are hitting 29 and 30 now say that he was competive even back then and didn't seem to realize that they were about 9 yrs. older than him. Didn't matter to him, he was out there to give it his all.
When he was about 8, he tried out for the Major div. of LL and was their starting catcher. The coach came up to me after a practice and said this kid's a natural. He was not afraid of the kids or hitting the ball even tho some of the kids 3 yrs. older were. That drive had to be inborn. Like some of the others, I wished it would've worked with the academics. He had a slight learning disability or ADHD if I believe the school psychiatrist. He thought we should put him on Ritalin but I loved his personality so I didn't. He always had to work alittle harder in that area and was always average but baseball and s****r helped him get his priorities straight. I used to remind him that if he didn't do the work, I wouldn't have to tell him he couldn't play 'cause the school would.
Now he's in his 2nd yr of college and I have seen a chg. in his way of thinking. His dream was always to play in the majors but now he realizes that not many make it so school has become more important to him. Not that he doesn't still have the dream but it's more realistic now. I still tell him to go as far as he can because once you hit the working world, all you have are alot of great memories but it's more than some people have.
It's been alot of years of great fun, good talks with him and I know it will come to an end but I'm just along for the ride and hope we've contributed along the way to the person he'll become.

Pabbmom,

Please stop by more often. You are a wonderful writer. There has been a tear or two forced out of me after reading several of these stories in this thread.

quote:

You never really "make it", you are always somewhere in the process, with things behind you and things ahead of you

Yep.