When Coach Fox took over at UNC he started sending out a letter to all the NC HS coaches. In this letter he said if you wanted to bring your team to a UNC home game call the baseball office and request tickets and let them know which game you wanted to attend.

I thought this was a great idea so I called got the date worked out and the tickets came for the game. I told my players that on this certain Saturday we were not going to practice but we were going to take a trip.

They showed up on that Saturday morning and we got on the bus and took the 45 minute drive to Chapel Hill to see the Tarheels take on Wake Forest. My youngest son was 8 years old at the time and of course he made the trip with the team. Hey you got to take the bat boy too.

I made sure we got there to see infield before the game because for me this was probaly the most eye opening experience my players could see. They sat there in awe as play after play was made during infield. They saw the speed the strength of the arms and the athletic ability of the players.

On the way back home I asked them what they thought. None of my players had ever seen a college game in person. My 8 year old son had seen many. They were amazed at the ability the size and strength of the players. They were amazed at the arm strength and the speed of the game.

I suggest that every player and parent that wishes to play at the next level go see what the next level is all about. To me how can anyone even think about playing at the next level and not want to go see for themseleves anyway? TV does not count. It does not do the game justice. You have to go in person to appreciate the players and the speed of the game.

Baseball is for sure a food-chain sport and each wants to be the big fish in the big sea. Is it doable? It seems a lot of players drop by the wayside when they need to "jump" to the next level (e.g., transition from travel ball to high school, or high school to junior college). Two ways to overcome this problem are to follow Coach May's advise and observe the next level and also to compete at big events against top players who will be going to the next level.

An interesting side benefit: Your son becomes accustomed to performing at big events and at high levels.. been there, done that.. and the transition becomes seamless.

Some good points. We are lucky in that we live 20 mins from 3 D1 colleges. We have had 3 minor league teams and a pro team in our city and are 60 miles from the Skydome where my son has played 4-5 times. We also have 10-12 elite teams within 20-60 miles and some of the best BB teams in all of Canada. We have 3 senior leagues that provide 3 levels of BB competition, all of which are very competetive. 2 of the leagues have been in existance for 30-40 years and have ex pro and current and ex college players. We have a few Canadian Universities in our area aswell.
My son and I hung around the Jays A level team because we had friends involved with them. I attended their practices and got to know some of the BB greats like Carpenter, Delgado and many many more. I went to picnics with them and my son had a chance to throw with them .We had a pro team run by Fergie Jenkins daughter in the CBL and son got invited to workout with them after P coach Ron Davis spotted him throwing a ball around before a game.
Looking back I can't believe the influence and opportunity we had in our home area. My son was never intimidated by what he saw. He never questioned his ability to play in college. He always took the opportunity to pitch to guys that ML guys. One time in a winter workout there were 15 cross checkers who had come to watch a high draft pick. My son had thrown about 50 live action pitches and this guy was comming up. He asked the coach if he could throw to this guy. The coach said fine. He dominated him. Had him off balance, way out front , swinging at air and after 30 pitches he had only fouled off 3 pitches. The guy tipped his hat to him when he was done.
I know most don't get this kind of oppotunity so we were very lucky and just knew that my son could play in college. When I think back over the years I have to pinch myself at all the wonderful experiences.

Any father who knows a bit about baseball, any parent that have played baseball, can see what kind of tools his kid has. And also can see if the kid may do well or not at the next level. The parent that can not see the areas his son need to improve to play the next level, can not help his own son. If a parent knowing his son is not that good, tell him and others that his son is a star, is not doing nothing good for his own kid. If you as a father don't have the knowledge to evaluate your son baseball tools, you have to ask and listen to the qualified people about it. To tell a kid that need to work hard on this or that, it works only for good, even if he is a real stud.

We took what Coach May did one step further with our LL team-- I requested that the players and parents join me to watch my sons summer team, my son was in college, play. The team was comprised of college , ex college and ex pro players.

I wanted the parents more than the players to see what was down the road----most were stunned because they had no idea as to what was ahead of them---we too got there before pregame warmups so they could see what went---they did not just show up and play---they prepared before the game

My son told us that frequently there were LL teams, HS, or other college teams out watching their practice.

As TR and Coach May suggests, if you have college programs in your area or good HS teams, take your younger players to watch practice.

You can learn alot by observing.

I have been "listening" to this discussion evolve to the point that I think that there is another point of view that should be considered.

Rather than, "How good is my son?" I would rather ask "can he compete?"

My son was never the best on the field, yet he could compete. When he was in LL, he was good, but not the best. But he could compete. When he played HS ball was he the best, no but he could compete. When he got to college, was he the best on his team, no but he could compete. Playing summer ball against young men whose "pedigree" was superior, he could complete. If you believe in yourself and train yourself, you can go far beyond what others might think of your "tools."

If he listened to all the naysayers that said, he was too slow, couldn't throw hard enough or he should have more power for his size and give up he would not be playing.

For a young man, I think the question is can you compete and what are you willing to do "to stay on the field."

Wow!!! Will you marry me? The hair on my arms stood up when I read that. Now that is what the hell Im talking about.

Let me just add this "Are you WILLING to compete?"

Not when you know you can. Not when you know you are better. No, are you willing to compete regardless of the odds? Are you willing to compete when you know the deck is stacked against you?

There is nothing more satisfying than knowing you are the underdog and knowing that you are not expected to compete and then you come out of nowhere and you shove it in their face.

Now that gets my blood pumping!

quote:

Originally posted by ILVBB:
I have been "listening" to this discussion evolve to the point that I think that there is another point of view that should be considered.

Rather than, "How good is my son?" I would rather ask "can he compete?"

I like that. The talent line between "how good" and "can compete" is a very fine one.

#1- Baseball Talent
#2- Can you compete "Willingness to compete"

Two totally different things.

There are alot of talented players that can not compete or are unwilling to compete. They are fine as long as they are in a comfort zone. Take them out of their comfort zone and put them in an environment with other players as talented and they can not compete.

Then there are players who may not be as talented. But you put them on the field with players as talented or more talented and they compete. They battle , scratch , claw , they do whatever it takes to compete.

That second group I would run through hell with a gasoline suit on for. They will be there in the end when the others are nowhere to be found. Mark that down as a fact!

ILVBB - I already know your son. He is one of my favorite players. He has that thing they call "it". "IT" is the most important thing a player can have.

For the very rare player, I buy the notion of having "IT." Derek Jeter, Justin Upton, Ryan Zimmerman, David Wright--they all have "IT." But for the vast majority of players at all levels, success in baseball boils down to this:

(1) Physical gifts--speed, quickness, strength, arm strength, agility, soft hands. . .
(2) Mental gifts--baseball IQ, thinking like a player, thinking ahead, learning. . .
(3) Will--determination, the will to succeed. . .
(4) Skill development--working on baseball skills like footwork, mechanics, glove work. . .
(5) Opportunity--the chance to be on the field, all the time, practicing and playing games, even when not at your best, against the best possible competition (this affords the necessary experience).

Missing out on any of these results ultimately in failure to progress in the baseball world (which is not say that the kid who does not get past HS varsity is a failure--not at all).

A player cannot control his gifts. God controls those. A player is either blessed with physical talent and mental talent or he is not.

A player can control, to some extent, his will, but in some ways that is determine, as well, by the chemical composition of the brain and such.

A player has enormous control over his skill development, but needs to have support from a coach that knows proper mechanics and can successfully teach them.

A player has very little control over opportunity. If a coach has 12 similarly skilled players, a kid may or may not get his chances. If he does, he has a much better chance of developing than if he doesn't.

This is a very interesting thread.

I do wonder how good my son actually is at times. I’m told he is considered by most in our town to be the top player. He has played up in age and been a main contributor to our towns AS team for a few years. Seeing this, we decided to try out for a top travel team in our area. He made the team and does play MIF/bats 3rd but I am still not convinced of his abilities.

Last year, we went to a college camp (DIII). Basically worked out with the team. He (from my prospective anyway) appeared to be fit right in working with the infielders. They held back at first with the difficulty of the balls he had to field, but after a few - He was fielding the same balls as the college team. I have always tried to stay back and let my son earn his spots. So far, he has done quite well but I can’t say that he has the tools to play college ball. We can hope but I guess time will tell.

I am a firm believer that you need to see your player against better/great competition.
Personally, watching my guy play when he was younger (LL) he stood out.
As he grew older, he continues to stand out locally, regionally and within the state.

But he also had the opportunity to compete in high level national tournaments and showcases. Is he overmatched? Absolutely not. Can he compete? You bet. But, does he stand out? not quite... but that is OK. It was at that time when I (as a parent) knew how good he was/was not. It wasn't until I was able to see him perform against some of the best in the nation that I saw his true talent (or lack thereof). And I am glad we were given that opportunity.....

I have enjoyed this thread, and believe the "can compete" line of thinking fits most squarely with my own. All kids have good and bad days, but if day in and day out they go out and play at or above the level of their competition, then I say they are a keeper.

Not to sidetrack the thread, but I spent many hours wondering where my son "fit" and where he would "end up". I have come to realize that those questions will be answered in due time and by others, not me. That realization has helped me enjoy each play and game a little more.

quote:

I do wonder how good my son actually is at times. I’m told he is considered by most in our town to be the top player. He has played up in age and been a main contributor to our towns AS team for a few years. Seeing this, we decided to try out for a top travel team in our area. He made the team and does play MIF/bats 3rd but I am still not convinced of his abilities.

My son (a freshman) is arguably the best athlete in his class. He is the best baseball player in his class. Placing him in travel ball on a regular basis at 13U has taken him out of that comfort zone. He's still very good. But so is everyone else. Some games he's the star. Some games he's a face in the crowd. It prevents complacency. It keeps him pushing on to be the best.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
I take another view of parental evaluation. *90% of parents will rate their sons "above average" during the pre high school and high school years. However only *10% of those players actually become "above average" players. The parents of those above average players are called respected old timers on the HSBBW ---- the others parents that felt the same way about their sons, but failed to guess correctly, have faded away. Trust me I'm not an evaluation expert as TPM suggest ---- I'm just a parent that was lucky and fortunate to have an above average player.

*The percentages (90% and 10%) are used as examples only and are not the actual percentages.

I guess the rest of us are just chopped liver!

quote:

I guess the rest of us are just chopped liver!

Sportsfamily, Re-read my post. My whole point is to say that most parents (including me) cannot judge their son's talent no matter what level that talent is. Parents tend to guess about their son's talent including me. Many parents get it wrong and many of those that got it right were probably lucky. The topic is "How good is my son?” I believe most parents don't have a clue. What do you think?---- and --- What touched a nerve with you?
Fungo

Interesting Thread,

I think there are basically three type of parents.
(A) Those who think he or she is really better than they really are (rose colored glasses parents I guess)

(B) Those who see their kid as a middle of the packer, ie a little above average, not the best player on any given team, but not the worst.

(C) And those who underestimate the kids talent and are a little surprised at some of the successes they have had.

If I'm being totally honest, I would consider myself a (C) parent. The reason being is that the boy never was the hardest thrower. Never was the best hitter. Always was the smallest on the team (or close to it).
Always split time at positions with other kids up until his senior year in high school. He never played in or was asked to play on a team that was in the top select leagues until his senior year in high school.

If I'm still being honest, I would say that I have just recently graduated from a (C) and moved up to a (B-). Still somewhat surprised that he is playing college ball, but very proud nonetheless.
I go to college games and see young men knock the heck out of the ball (big league style at times). I see them throw 90 plus on occasion. I witness double plays turned frequently Then I see my son go out there and face one of those hitters, lacking one of those 90 plus fastballs and again question his ability, and yet, through out his career and up to this point, he has succeeded more than he has failed.

I've been told on occasion to give the boy more credit than I do, and I should. Maybe it's just always been my way of coping with the possibility that he won't be successful in this or that situation. Maybe I have always been that (C) parent because if he gave up the game winning run, or didn't make it out of the first I could always say I knew he really didn't have the talent to be at this level or that level.

My son and I have a great relationship. He knows that I'm surprised that he has made it this far, I think he is a little surprised himself. He also knows that there is not a more proud parent in the world (I know, we all are the proudest) than I am.

I guess the message I'm trying convey here is not that my son has or lacks talent because obviously I'm not a very good judge of that, but that no matter what kind of parent category you fall into, we all want what's best for our child. Whether it's rose colored glasses, middle of the pack, or a child you may underestimate, in the end, their talent and a little luck are going to take them as far as it's meant to take them. Sit back and enjoy, if your child is having fun and is happy, nothing else matters!

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:

quote:

I guess the rest of us are just chopped liver!

Sportsfamily, Re-read my post. My whole point is to say that most parents (including me) cannot judge their son's talent no matter what level that talent is. Parents tend to guess about their son's talent including me. Many parents get it wrong and many of those that got it right were probably lucky. The topic is "How good is my son?” I believe most parents don't have a clue. What do you think?---- and --- What touched a nerve with you?
Fungo

Thank You for your response and you deserve one from me. I posted a question about a week or so ago about transfering from D-1 to JUCO. My son is in a less than favorable situation, completely opposite of what the coach told him when he was recruited. Since that time, there has been a few threads about transferring and whether or not players should or should not transfer and try to better their situation.
I was beginning to get the feeling that everyone thinks a player should just sit there and take whatever is dished out. I don't feel that way. I may be lumping alot of folks into one group, but it "seemed" like the old timers, whose kids had made it, took exception to other kids trying to improve their stock in life. Most folks seem to think coaches can't make mistakes. You are wrong. They can and do.
I am well aware of the odds of making it in professional baseball, but if my son tells me he wants to make the best effort to try and get drafted, I will support him to the very end. The bitter end, if that's what it is. I have not, nor will I begin giving him false hopes or shallow praise. I have always been one to tell him when he did a good job and when he didn't put forth his best effort. Whatever the situation called for.
I enjoy reading these threads and will continue to do so. I will also continue to support my son as long as there is an avenue for him to pursue. Please be alittle more understanding of parents whose sons are not giant left handers or monsters who hit homeruns as easy as walking across the field. Thank You and I mean no disrespect to anyone.

quote:

I may be lumping alot of folks into one group, but it "seemed" like the old timers, whose kids had made it, took exception

Not all of them - just a few who obviously stick out like a sore thumb. Makes you wonder why? Ok.. We get it, your kids got scholarships! THEY earned it. Now a new crop is coming here and for whatever reason, it seems some of the old timers feel that their "space" is being violated. Geez, you helped your kid get a scholarship - It's been done thousands of times.. But he did the important stuff. Cure cancer and then I will be impressed!