Let's be honest here, we all know a talented player when we see one, including our own.

I think what is important is not what we always see, but what others see and how our players see themselves. It is our responsibility to provide opportunities for them to compare themselves against others (not just on the HS field) and to provide opportunities to improve.

I am strongly against a parent telling their player they are better than others, just as I am strongly against a parent jumping all over their player because they don't meet their (parents) expectations. There are some things our kids have to figure out in life and where they belong and where they want to be in the scheme of things is up to them. The only time we got on our son a** was if he was lazy. We offered support if had a bad outing. We never said you are better than that, we always said you could do better than that. We never compared him in conversation with him to anyone but himself.

I agree with some points that IFD and CD have made, especially consistancy. If you faced a top player one time and he beat you (either being a pitcher or hitter), wa he that good or were you having a bad day and vice versa? You need to face that top player quite a few times, with metal and with wood, maybe for 2-3 years before you can determine if you have it or you don't, that's a true test, IMO. My son used a few players he faced as his benchmark. One was Matt Weiters. On occassion he struck him out, on occassion he blooped him out, on occasion he got on base and also got jacked. But each time it was a battle and there were quite a few of them. He knew he was most likely facing the best hitter in college baseball and did well. He learned a lot from it all.
Seeing your son in the lineup consistantly through his career is also a good measure as to his ability, especially if you face tough competition.

JMO.

TMM_Dad,

Now, now. I know your son well, and you and I both know he'll never make it at the college level!

.

Does it really matter what I, as a parent, think?

I am there to support HIS passion, to help him chase HIS dreams. To use baseball as a means to help him grow and learn life lessons. To use baseball as a way for us to connect. To help him develop as an athlete. If he remains passionate, and ambitious I will get him “seen” and other decision makers whose careers depend upon such assessments will give us a clearer picture.

I have seen many parents overestimate their sons abilities, and get them artificially pushed forward...temporarily....However reality always catches up.

I have seen parents who were ambivalent about their sons talent, yet their sons managed to blaze some pretty amazing trails on talent alone.

As TR said in another thread...

quote:

...sit back and relax --let you son do his thing and let it all come together--- your son cannot be what he isnt--he is what he is...

Great advice.

44
.

quote:

Does it really matter what I, as a parent, think?

It means everything imho. My good friend why would you say something like this? Now if you meant, does what my opinion (as a parent) matter to what OTHER PEOPLE think then I agree, it means nothing.

I take another view of parental evaluation. *90% of parents will rate their sons "above average" during the pre high school and high school years. However only *10% of those players actually become "above average" players. The parents of those above average players are called respected old timers on the HSBBW ---- the others parents that felt the same way about their sons, but failed to guess correctly, have faded away. Trust me I'm not an evaluation expert as TPM suggest ---- I'm just a parent that was lucky and fortunate to have an above average player.

*The percentages (90% and 10%) are used as examples only and are not the actual percentages.

quote:

*The percentages (90% and 10%) are used as examples only and are not the actual percentages.

How about 99% and 1% Not sure if you meant it that way, but I got a nice chuckle from your post!

Personally - I rarely thought about "how good he was".

I usually just thought about whether he was good enough to hit the next pitch - or catch the next one hit to him.

Sometimes - he was - and sometimes he wasnt.

Then I went home.

Fungo, my comment was meant to be funny. I too got a chuckle from your post.

I understand what 44 is trying to say.
I understand what CD is trying to say.

I have a friend whose son was not a very good baseball player compared to the other players on our pre HS fall team. He attended a magnet school for pre medical studies, in a predominately black school (they do that here to integrate). The school is not known for baseball, but basketball and football. He was the star on his very weak HS baseball team. One day at a game when we were playing against one another, she turned to me to tell me that she knew DK had a bright future in baseball, and although she knew her son was not that good, as far as she was concerned it was her son and he was the best.

I had no problem with that statement.

quote:

Personally - I rarely thought about "how good he was".

its - the fact you used the word "rarely" means the thought has crossed your mind. I think what you are trying to say (or imply) is this game is about production. Am I missing something?

CD - you arent missing a thing.

I think the game is (and always should be) - all about production.

I know that isnt always the case - but that doesnt change my mind.

I have to admit I think I might have underestimated where my son might stack up in baseball. Would you call that Gray Colored glasses?


My guy has been very fortunate to have great baseball mentors that have pushed him to pursue some incredible opportunities to showcase his skills. If you can give your son a chance to be seen by decision makers and play against the best competition you can find there are people out there with greater baseball smarts that you that will let you know where he stacks up.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
TMM_Dad,

Now, now. I know your son well, and you and I both know he'll never make it at the college level!

Good one, MD.

If you watch alot of baseball, and see that your son is making plays, hitting, fielding and doing the same kind of things at his age that are similar to those of the great players in the MLB, and he is always voted into the post season tournaments as a starter, then I would say you might have a player with potential.

That's one side of the coin...

The other side is coaching and development environment. If these two are not in sync with your players potential his talent will be retarded and he will not develope properly. Result will be when it comes time to be seriously evaluated his skills will not match up.

The variables on that side of the coin are much more important then his athletic ability. Without proper coaching and development environment he will lose his confidence and doubt whether he even belongs on the same field with the other good players...even though he may be the best of all of them...

Seen this happen...get your son onto private teams with the highest level of competition and use the in season leagues (schools) to keep him tuned up for summerball.
JMO

This is what we have done, besides just using our eyes:

1) Try to get the objective things measured when it is appropriate to do this (60-time, throwing velocity, home to first, etc.)
2) Look at the semi-objective things (stats relative to the league)
3) Get other people's opinions (what role does the coach assign to the player and how important is that role, did he get post-season recognition, get a scout evaluation).

When we got to the stage of choosing colleges with our first two children, we did the third item differently. Our daughter (different sport, but the concepts are similar) was on a state championship volleyball team and was voted by the PA coaches as a first team all-state player. She had played lots of club ball and HS ball, so it was easy to see where she fit (taking into account her size - too short for D I) and she was able to get in to the college she desired. Our son (the baseball player) decided kind of late that he wanted to play in college, so we just got a pro scout evaluation for 1 & 3 on the list. This helped us to pick the right level of school and his process has gone smoothly, so far.

I would highly encourage high school parents take their sons to some D1 College games this spring. Get there early for infield practice.

Go to some of the early tournaments at the end of February and first of March that are being played across the country. I know that you will be at the start of your high school season but there will be games played on Sunday that you can go to. You drive all over the country to go to showcases - take the time to drive to see the college competition.

It is an eye-opening experience that will show your son (and you) more than any words you can say. JMHO but I think it will help both of you see where or if your son can achieve that level of play. Many outstanding players on that college field will never make it at the next level.

Edited post: Also go to see the D2, D3, JUCO, and NAIA play!

This is an interesting question.

My son wants to play college baseball at a high level. Is he good enough? I honestly don't know.

As he enters his junior season in high school, one of the more critical times, it would be nice to really know - to have some kind of definitive objective benchmark. We all look for validation.

But really there is no such thing. The best you have is a variety of proxies - opinion of knowledgable people, stats, measures of skills, expressed interest of college coaches, etc.

I've pretty much stopped thinking much about it, because it will all become clear in the next year. It will take care of itself. The only opinion that really matters in the question of whether he is good enough or not to play at a high level in college is the opinion of the coach who wants him on his team.

So, to answer the question this thread poses: NO - we don't REALLY know how good our sons are. And I think that it is probably better not to worry about it all that much - just let him play and prove how good he is to the people whose opinion on that question really matters!

I agree with not worrying about it. You play the best competition you can. We were lucky to be able to face college guys/ex pros for the last couple of years before college.
We knew without any doubt that son could pitch against them. His 1st time at 16 just about to turn 17 he was on a 19U elite team. He started a game against a team that had expros and college guys. He struck out 5 in the 2 innings he was scheduled to pitch including a guy who held the historical BA and HR record at a U in Virginia and who played 2 years Independant League. He struck out a guy who just got signed last year out of coastal Carolina. Another held the batting record at a strong university.
We were fortunate to have the oportunity to test my son's skills against guys who were college players. You could see him handle these guys like a seasoned pitcher. No nerves and just flat out dominant.
We had no doubt he could play colleg ball. I also believe he could pitch in the pros but I doubt he will get the chance so college will probably be it. I say that even though he has been told by pro scouts he has the ability. I just don't see his velocity improvimg enough.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
So, to answer the question this thread poses: NO - we don't REALLY know how good our sons are. And I think that it is probably better not to worry about it all that much - just let him play and prove how good he is to the people whose opinion on that question really matters!

Good post. I agree strongly with the part about not worrying about it, let them play to prove to the right people whose opinions counts.

We never worried about it, neither did son. He went to USA tryouts early in HS and although he didn't make the final cut, he played with and could keep up with the best in the class before him (2003), many drafted players and some playing in MLB. That was enough for HIM to decide he had the stuff, he just had to figure out what to do with it. He told us not to sweat it, so we didn't. I think that is why what we did was limited as to what others have done.

BBHD,
I am amazed that you remember this stuff, I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning, let alone who son pitched against with details.

I had a parent tell me a few years back "Coach we have alot of guys on this team that can play in college. Why dont we have any coaches up here taking looks at them?

I asked him "Have you ever been to see a college game?" He had this funny look on his face and didnt respond. I then said "Have you been up to see Louisburg College play? They are right down the road and they are juco. Have you ever been to see any level of college baseball?" This time he said "No I dont have time to go watch games Im too busy working and taking my son to his own games and practices." Well I then said "Then how do you know if any of these players are capable of playing at the next level?" Again no response.

You go and watch top level hs players play. You go to college games. D-1 , D-2 , D-3 , juco and community college baseball. You educate yourself and then you make sure you see reality and not what you want to see.

If your son does not stand out on the field with other hs players then thats a clue. Personally I dont think its very hard if your realistic with yourself. And I dont think its very hard if you go out and see whats out there. I knew my oldest son was not a very good baseball player. I knew my youngest was.

Get out of the little pond and take a visit to the ocean. If your the big fish in the little pond go see just how big a fish you are by visiting the ocean. If your just another fish in the pond that is your answer right there. And if your a minnow in the pond "come to grips with reality". Before you get swallowed by the whale.

CM,
You bring up some good points and I like your no nonsense get to the bottom line posts.

I think maybe I just assumed that if ones son has desire to play the college game, you've made it your business to go watch a game with him. We told son if you want to play top D1 baseball you go watch D1 baseball. He grew up on UM so it was a good opportunity for him. For a parent to just assume that every HS player is college material is whacky..IMO.

I remember Jim Morris giving his speech about what it takes to play UM baseball, position by poisition. Pretty tough stuff, IMO. I wonder how many folks and players really listen to those HC speeches at camp.

So with that in mind, I have to say it IS important to know how really good or not good your son is, and take the necessary steps to find out (showcases, top tournies, watching college games). This should give a parent a benchmark as to where he might fit in.