Just wanted to share a little update. My son has had problems with weight gain. This has been discussed on this site through supplements, whether creatine was safe or not and various other blogs we have discussed , all being very imformative. I am a parent who has not wanted my son on creatine.
so after much research i had some testing done on my son. It is called vo2 testing. It gives you their basic metabolic rate and approx how much they burn while exercising.
We have been working on this for a long time before the testing and saw 6 pound gain in about 6 months and I couldnt figure out what was going on.
So In the last 5 weeks we have seen a 5 pound weight gain. Very excited because he needs the extra weight.I wanted to share with those that are in the same situation.
First the vo2 test was invaluable. really learned what he needed. Adjusted his calories. Pre workout he has carnation instant breakfast with whole milk.
while working out: 6ox. gatorade,2ox of water and 2 scoops whet protein that is sipped on during the workout. then follows that up with a muscle milk. Then off to school.
within 2 hours he eats something: extremely important to eat every couple hours: but not all fatting foods. arranged his calories with a nutritionist help and have began seeing immedite results.actually i may have to back off a little if he gains to quickly but he could put on 20 pounds and it would hardly be noticeable. he has said he feels bigger and stronger, he is lifting three times a week for 45 minutes. always has a on pro complex gainer smootie just about every day to help get calories in.
also put him on a good multi, essential fatty acids(fish oils) and a digestive enzyme. Got a lot of this help from one of our posters jon doyle. We have used no creatine. just calories, protein before, during and after workouts and 6 meals a day. Meal can be a snack example 1/2 cup nuts, 16 0x glass of milk thats about 5-600 cal and isnt too filling.
Just wanted to share that we are having success. vo2 test was a major factoin this. any questions you can pm me.good luck (hard gainers understand this post)it can be done. but it is a lot of work.

What is so bad about Creatine ? You are doing a very similar thing.

First of all, congrats on the weight gain, but also how old is your son and what is his height and weight?

Why i ask, is in my AP anatomy class at school this was brought up about some people in our weight room as that some athlets could not gain as much weight as others in a certain time. And my teacher whos has a doctorate in Kinestesiology and Sports Medicine (not sure if its a doctorate in this) said that biologically there is a trait in DNA that limits physical structure/mass gain time, and also physics wise its a common sense area, that if you have a smaller structure of skeleton and that your body limits yourself.

Is this a true statement above or is it a theory of science? In no way am i saying this is your son, im not a doctor but it was just a discussion in my High School AP Anatomy class just this last week.

Fan of game -
Please note that gaining 1 lb. a week MAY cause more fat and less muscle gain than 1 lb. a month. You will have to be diligent about keeping an eye on this. Of particular note if not body fat testing other than pinching the abs is decreases in speed. It may pay to gain and then stabilize for a while and then look to gain more if/when needed.
Also, a 1 lb. a month gain is not bad - if he did that for the next 4 years that would be 48 lb. Many people do not look at the long term. Of course I also can imagine a time where an extra 10-20 lb. can get a kid noticed and keep him moving up the chain.
I do know of a local kid who gained 20 lb. between his junior and senior year in HS. He went from being not really noticed to being drafted with a 1/2 million bonus for signing (can't remember which round). He pitched that summer, came back to either rookie or single A the next year, complained after a few months of his elbow hurting - MRI by team showed nothing. He left and got another MRI and that doctor said he saw something but couldn't pinpoint what. Kid left the team and never pitched for years - finally did the other year for a local semi-pro team. I am not sure what he is doing now. Any way, I believe that yes, the extra 20 lb. gave his pitching extra zip and he looked more "projectable". I also believe that his gain never got a chance to be distributed to the muscles, tendons, and ligaments needed for playing a lot of baseball. Something to consider.

Tim Robertson

The body does not gain muscle in a slow and steady manner during teenage years, and even into the 20's. Due to a developing Central Nervous System and overall growth process of the body, many teens do not gain much weight, even as they are gaining strength. That's why you see a kid lifting for 3-4 years and onlying gaining 5-10 pounds, which wouldn't be much more than if he did not lift. Then, all of a sudden as he matures, and assuming he sticks to his weight training program, he gains 15, 20 even up to 30 pounds of muscle in a very short period of time, usually 90 days or less. I see this occur very frequently.

As Tim said, one must be careful about connective tissue growing at same rate as new muscle. The above scenario is the body's built-in govenor to ensure this happens. That is one reason why weight gain with steroids does not prevent this from happening, as it forces the body to build muscle tissue before it's ready.

Certainly genetics play a major role in weight, especially in the form of muscle. But, unless you want to be a professional bodybuilder, anyone can reach their muscle mass goal. It's simply a longer and tougher road for some. You have to do the best with the hand that's been dealt to you.

My son was 6'3" and 165lbs as a college freshman. Couldn't put a lb on. In his soph year his trainer put him on a regulated creatine program and a few months later he was 195lbs. He hasn't talen creatine this season and he is still 189 lbs. It isn't water because in 100% SC weather water is sucked out of you faster than you can drink it.
My wife works for a major drug chain and she went to the pharms and got similar responses. If used properly it will have no harmful affects. She was also warned about the imporper use of protein and its over use.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
He is 5'11he has been told he needs to put on weight more or less in those words. at this time we are trying to get him just gaining.

Who told you he needs to gain wieght, a college coach? So he would get noticed?
I have never seen anyone so obsessed with their player gaining weight and you should listen carefully to the advice given.
I always beleive that playing around with what mother nature didn't intend is not always healthy. You are so opposed to creatine which used correctly is safe, yet rapid weight gain at an early age which is not always healthy seems to be ok.
My son had the height for his weight at 17, 6'2" at 195 and very thin. He is now 22 at a bit over 6'3" height and weighs 208, added weight due to height gain and muscle gain but still thin, not muscular, a very safe and healthy weight gain over the years. He is now entering a time in his life where weight gain will become more rapid, due to age alone.

JMO.

Fanofgame,
I am entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.

However, this post, which you began, in regards to what you have done to help your son achieve rapid weight gain and posted and possibly followed by younger players, is not to everyone's best interest, IMO. The same way suggesting creatine or other means may not be.

As stated before, coaches telling young players that they have to get bigger and stronger to achieve their goals is in my opinion, dangerous ground. Coaches should be honest in their approaches, telling players they need to get bigger is not always what they mean, sometimes it's just not that they are ready for that particular program.

Your son may definetly need ot gain weight, I agree, but important to remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.

TPM

You are totally off base when you say that a coach telling a player to get bigger and stronger is on dangeroous ground.

Most kids in HS need to get bigger and stronger to succeed and improve their game and bigger and stronger does not necessarily mean supplements or steroids---many HS kids just do not work out to help themselves.


IMO, to use your favorite term, your are totally wrong

-

TR,
Thanks for your opinion I respect that, but that is my opinion and I am sticking to it. Please point out where I have used the term wrong. And I did not imply that you need not condition or not follow a good healthy diet to achieve those goals.

Actually you hit on it too, bigger and stronger does not necessarily mean supplements or steroids. However, everyone should be cautious of the message they send and how it is sent.

Player goes to a college camp, coach tells him he needs to get bigger and stronger. Bye. Player goes to another college camp, coach tells the player that he needs to mature physically to improve the skills needed to succeed in that program. This can include a better conditioning and weight gain program.

IMO, I see this the same as the young girl at 13,14,15 maybe still a bit pudgy wanting to look like one of those sticks on the cover on their fav magazine.

The dangerous groud is when a coach tells a player something (such as to gain weight or get stronger) and then either fails to provide a way to do that (or a reference on where to look) or provides mis-information, which happens quite often.

Jon

Would you agree that the majority kids in HS are not in baseball shape, much less good physical shape to begin with?

quote:

Would you agree that the majority kids in HS are not in baseball shape, much less good physical shape to begin with?

Yes, without a doubt.

Fan you have been rather defensive. I asked you what the difference was about your approach and using creatine. Not an attack. You said you didn't want your son to take it based on a gut feeling ? That is your perogative. Creatine is the only thing that helped my son gain muscle even though he was working out for years. After his freshman college year he had actually lost a couple Lbs. The trainer suggested creatine and showed him the safe way to take it. He had used protein shakes etc but very little if any gain.
I think it is fair to listened to posters experiences as part of a valuation of what might help.
My son like YPM's is still a skinny thing but he has gained a lot of lean muscle.
There is no need to be upset with the advice through personal experience given here.

I would add that my son was in amazing shape when he went to college. He got that way through the training in elite BB not from HS. Never stopped working out all year except for a couple weaks at Xmas.

My son was a work out addict but until college he never gained weight or musccle---when he got to college they put him on a diet program along with creatine which he took under the direction teams trainer and with approval of his doctor at home

He went into college 5-9/150 can came out 5-11/195, solid as a rock

I don't see anything harmful in what you are deoing. I know many who do the same. Advice given to us was that over yse of proetein can harm your kidneys and that was from a Pharm and a doctor. The mention that you didn't use creatine has a negative sound towards creatine. Our experience has been good and the guys I know who used it also had great results. Like anything it has to be taken properly and in moderation.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
My son was a work out addict but until college he never gained weight or musccle---when he got to college they put him on a diet program along with creatine which he took under the direction teams trainer and with approval of his doctor at home

He went into college 5-9/150 can came out 5-11/195, solid as a rock

My point exactly.

Mine worked out in HS, took a supplement ate very well but couldn't gain anything until this year.
He is constantly eating (which is common to most youngsters) to keep his weight. Now, at 22 and probably done growing, taking supplements drinks, eating the right combo of protein, carbs and supplements (omega fats, vitamins, etc) he has gained more weight. As predicted he would, in his own bodies time as he matured. And I have stated this in may posts, let the body mature.

Fanofgame,
I do apologize if you have been offended. However in almost every post regarding any topic, you say the same thing, he has been told he needs to get bigger and stronger. Bigger and stronger, bigger and stronger.
Your son's "problem" is typical for most young players. However, most do not consider it a problem. You stated you were against creatine, that's fine that's your perogative. I have no particular fondness for it either. I most likely would do the same if someone came here that their HS player gained significant weight using creatine because that may or may not be the correct way to achieve results. In college, with trainers you have little control over the situation.

You also just stated the gain process was to get him stronger, which illustrates my point. Getting stronger does not equate getting better.

You came here to this area looking for advice did your homework and in a few weeks you come back to give results, a pound a week in 5 weeks. That's a significant weight gain for a 17 year old and was noted in two posts. You also said anyone can pm you for information. How can you give out that info are you a trainer? A nutritionist? What worked for your son may not be appropriate for another.

BTW, I did not state son was advised to take myoplex by coach that I can recall, and if he did, his masters degree is in excercise wellness and nuitrition. If in hS it was most likely by my husband. His trainer now sets his workout and his diet and supplements.

Maybe this a good thing, won't have to hear about how your son needs to gain weight in every post and just relax and enjoy his senior year.

I'm done now, again I do apologize if I offended you. good luck to you son.

fan


If you want to get more info touch base with me

You can go to you original post in this thread and hit delete and it will delete everything.

Fan of game -
Hey, I appreciated your post. I also didn't know what starting weight your son was at. I saw your son's weight and height and went to confirm it and then I see you took your post off, but yes, I would think (guessing as one needs to be closer to any situation to give better advice) that 5 lb. in 5 week for your son would not be a problem.
I liked what Mr. Doyle said. One thing I would add for clarification on the kid who gained 20 lb. between his junior and senior year and then got drafted. He was a pitcher and he gained the weight in one off season through weight lifting diligently and eating more. I would think that he would have been better off physically to have gained this the year before and then had more baseball playing time for specific muscles, tendons, and ligaments to grow to the new strength of the surrounding muscles. No, I can't prove anything on that, just my surmissings. Also his weight gain at 5'10" to 6' tall (can't remember exact height) was from around 155 to 175. I wonder if they scouts knew that 175 was a "new weight" and that it wasn't just from growing up that way. What I mean is that some kids would be 6' tall and 175 lb. and they got that way from playing sports and stressing the body from many angles and not just from a program of weight lifting that usually stresses the muscles in basic patterns of movement - that young man may be stronger in the sports moves than the one who gained the extra weight from gaining muscles from weights. I think that extra year of playing HS ball and probably Legion (or whatever summer ball) at the extra weight would have helped this kid rather being caught up in professional ball and all the extra practice and playing and the pressure to pitch well cause it's your job.
Would like to hear about the VO2 testing and how this relates to metabolism. I had always heard if you aren't gaining, then eat more. If that doesn't work then eat some more. Many people (especially parents) think that their son eats tremendous amounts of food and he can't just gain weight. You found a way - when his gains slow down and he needs any more weight, then he has to increase nutritional intake. Hard work is what keeps that weight gain from being fat as long as the body can build needed muscles, tendons, and ligaments that are being stressed. Of course there is a limit on the speed at which the body can accomplish this.
Hope your son does good and makes his goals.

Tim Robertson