When do you need to decide on an advisor, before or after the draft?

My son is getting pretty good interest from MLB scouts (several questionnaires and many calls to the HS coach about schedule) and advisors calling.

Can you wait to decide until you see where he ends up in the draft?

Does picking advisor before the draft really generate any benefits?

We have been talking to a couple advisors about the possibility of using their services should they be needed. But we can not decide at what point to go ahead and shake hands with one or the other.

What do you think? Why?

You don't shake hands with anyone.

My suggestion, you can listen to their advice, ask questions and pick their brains if you want and sort it all out. Trust is a very important factor and also experience. Also, if someone feels the need to gain your trust, don't let it be by telling you or your son how much better they are than the next guy. Where and if your HS son is drafted is determined by his talent and willingness to sign and the scout who beleives in him, that's about it in a nutshell.

You can contact your MLB area scout and he will gladly go over all of your questions, without you having to make a commitment to anyone.

Make it your business to find out first 10 slots and signing bonus if this is a concern (money). Yo can do that on your own.

JMO.

If your son decides he wants to turn pro and you feel the need for an agent, then make the decision either before or after. Do not sign anything with anyone.

Good questions! I asked these same ones a year ago & we chose not to use one.

If you are going pretty high up in the draft (top 3/4 rounds) maybe it would be smart to get one.

However, many teams are going to stick to "slot" money after they draft you so there isn't much need for an advisor because they probably aren't going to get you any more money. If you sign over slot, you are probably not playing the summer after the draft.

If you want to avoid some of the direct talking with scouts and minimize all the phone calls, "what will you sign for?" then an agent might help shield you from that to a degree. We did it all on our own.

If I was getting one, I would probably get one before the draft. Do some homework and get someone who knows what they are doing and someone who will represent your best interests. Know what you are getting into before hand.

First:

I agree with NC42dad. I will take it a step further. In my opinion there is ABSOLUTELY no reason (except one that I will explain below) to retain the services of an advisor. On a side note remember to always distinguish an advisor from an agent because an advisor is not formally reatined on your behalf to do anything. Hence your son's ability to remain eligible. On the other hand, if you refer to this individual as an agent an inference can be made, by a hall monitor like individual that your son has retained the services of someone for purposes of playing professional baseball, and therefore lose eligibilty status.

Second:
I will answer your third question first. As to whether picking an advisor before the draft really helps, that too depends. In 2005 Yankees 8th round pick received $800,000. He was also heavily recuited for basketball. Part of the reason he slipped so far down was because he committed to play basketball for Georgia Tech. For a paltry $800,00 Jackson agreed to forego college and basketball. An advisor may assist if your son falls into one of these categories: 1) one of the most highly sought after players in the country; 2) a two sport star who committed to play the alternate sport at said college, but is "open" to reconsideration; or 3)is definitely foing in the first three-five rounds.

Third:
With that said, the use of an advisor prior to the draft is more aesthetic (commands attention) than anything else. The problem is it may turn off some college coaches because I believe that whether an agent or advisor both will inevitably stir up some strong emotions.

Fourth:
NEVER, and I mean NEVER shake hands with an Advisor as you will need to wash your right hand will be more oily than if doused your hair with 4 extra large dots of bryllcream (remember a little dot will do ya). In all seriousness, if you chose an advisor make sure you know his reputaion among the teams. There are some agents who are known for getting the job done quick. However, quick could mean at a loss for your son. There may be some agents who are intense negotiators. In those instances the teams may back off. In any event these are some ideas to consider. And don't be afraid to ask these questions directly to the advisor. In fact, whichever agent/advisor squirms least when answering the tough questions, that is who you pick.

1st of all....what do you think an advisor is? He is an agent. Unless of course you mean the HS coach or the school counselor or the neighbor that played 20 years ago or a friend of the family or granddad or the old Little League coach. Anyone that calls or knocks on the door and says they are an advisor only calls himself that because it is an NCAA violation to retain an agent.....

so understand ADVISOR = AGENT in the true sense of the word.

2nd....that Yankee's pick was Austin Jackson. Who did have a scholarship to Georgia Tech to play basketball. He was a very toolsy HS player. Very athletic and would have gone in the draft much higher if it had not been for the basketball scholarship (the 800 grand had nothing to do with an agent) The Yankee's are the only club who would have paid him that and taken that chance on him. They have picked many like him and paid premium amounts as well. Most don't pan out but ever so often one will. Thats the price you pay for the risk. Again, had nothing to do with an advisor/ agent.

Also, keep in mind that his bonus is being paid over 5 years and that if he quits baseball in that 5 year period he will have to pay back a large portion of the bonus and he will lose the rights to the remaining amount owed him....

But he can keep his own motel room and the parent plane tickets

3rd and last. It is a violation to enter into an agreement with an advisor/ agent and retain your college elgibility. Understand this will become a major issue in college baseball in the next few years.

My question to you AL MA 08 is this. Have any scouts done a home visit? Actually sat down with you and your son. Did he sign in the early signing period and is he a lefthanded pitcher?

Websters defines AGENT as "one that acts or exerts power."

Webster's defines ADVISOR: "a: to give advice to : counsel <advise her to try a drier climate> b: caution warn <advise them of the consequences> c: recommend <advise prudence>.

There are some who forgo college in order to enter the draft, and then there is swingbuilder who seems to have avoided college, maybe for reasons beyond his control..I think Swingbuilder may fall into the ladder.

Its sadly amusing how some people even in agremeent disagree.

for someone who knows it all, you sure don't know how to let go.

I have a masters degree.

I have never met or know of an advisor who doesn't know the family except that he came calling because someone had some talent or gives advise for FREE.

An advisor = AGENT. The advisor wants something in return for his advice and it surely isn't a room by himself or a plane ticket for his parents. He wants CASH for giving his advise so once that player becomes drafted THE RULES ALL CHANGE and then they CHANGE AGAIN if he signs.

Advisor = AGENT

quote:

Originally posted by newagent:
There are some who forgo college in order to enter the draft, and then there is swingbuilder who seems to have avoided college, maybe for reasons beyond his control..I think Swingbuilder may fall into the ladder.

Posted by TPM: You don't shake hands with anyone.

REALLY! I thought you could NOT sign any kind of agreements with an advisor, but could ask/tell one that you would like to have their help and advice. I figured this amounts to a “gentlemen’s agreement”. Is this not how its done? I certainly do not want to put any question into his college eligibility.

We have been talking to scouts and they keep asking "do you have an advisor". There is a question about advisors on most all the questionnaires. It certainly seems they expect you to have one. I thought it would be good to have someone else to talk to as well. Some of the things I would want to talk about would feel wierd talking to the person I could end up in negotiations with. That seems like it would be putting all your cards on the table before you know what the game is.

newagent: Does "formally" mean a writtten agreement? That is what I thought.

Sorry swingbuilder, but I do not want to get into any specific details of our case here. I do not think it matters for my question, except to say that it looks like he could be in the first 10 rounds. Wich one depends on how he does this year at school and staying healthy, and as TPM points out "signability".

Anyway , I certainly appriciate the input from everyone. Some things to consider and good advice to heed.

If a player is sure he wants to go to college even if drafted I don't see the need for an "advisor". But if a player plans on signing I think its a good idea to have one before the draft.

I think its good to know what agents might want. Some charge between 3 to 5%, some want % of whole bonus, or % above slot or % above $100,000.
Some want a % of card deals etc,some don't.
Some may not want any fees until you reach the majors.
Some only want a % above league min.
So as TPM says do your homework.

Remember agents can be fired at any time

baseball contracts are harder to understand than the greek alphabet. you need to do your homework on many things, the college plan. you won't necesarily get it if you don't ask. escalation bonus's,not automatic either. slot money,most records only show to the 10th round .after that it can run the gamit.but not usualy life changing money.but when you add the above to it it adds value. and some scouts will tell you about these things,some won't.
an advisor can be your lawyer,friend etc. but you need to be informed as to what your options are. just like buying any big ticket item.look around ,ask around,be informed. you'll here lots of things from lots of people. but it's your son's future be prepared.
on the up side it's really cool when other people come to the house and talk about your kid. enjoy the journey.

AL MA 08

NCAA Rule 12.3.1 is enitled to "USE OF AGENTS"

According to the rule: "An individual shall be ineligible for participation in an intercollegiate sport if he or she has ever agreed (orally or in writing) to be represented by n agent for the purpose of marketing his or her athletics ability or reputation in that sport. Further, an agency contract not specifically limited in writing to a sport or particular sports shall be deemed applicable to all sports, and the individual shall be ineligible to participate in any sport.

TWO KEY POINTS:

1. The rule only applies to Agents not advisors (Hence Agent v. Advisor).

2. It applies to handshakes (**** agreement) and contracts (written).

What I am beginning to notice is that what is written is not necessarily what is enforced.

You may want to go to the NCAA website. Specifically you may want to download Bylaw 12 AMATUERISM and Article 13 RECRUITING. I assure you it was an eye opening experience for me.

As an interesting aside, I am intrigues as to how they prove the existence of an **** contract when the advisor/agent is an attorney. This is because any communication between the athlete and athlete-agent/advisor/attorney/ is privileged. Therefore, the attorney is prohibted from revealing the contents. In that scenario the athlete agent/advisor/attorney is placed in quite the predicament. Either reveal the confidential communication and subject himself/herself to disciplinary action by the State Bar or invoke the privilege, have the NCAA declare his client ineliginle and subject himself to a possible malpractice suit whereby the damages could exceed a million dollars, the client could show that the inelgibilty effect his draft staus and signing bonus.

Of course there is an easy way to avoid the above mentioned conondrum...error on the side of caution. ML MA, njbb, and 20dad I wish you and your family the best of luck.

newagent,
I think that is what swingbuilder was trying to express.
As far as why the college coaches having complaints about advisor/agents for the HS player, they work hard to sign a player and since he is not on campus, they know that they have no control over the situation, that the recruit may or may not be in a situation where he is being swayed or not to sign or go to college by an advisor/agent. They cannot stop a scout from coming into your home to speak to your son, but want some control over the advisor/agent. When the player is in college, they can somewhat control the entire situation. I found son's coaches had no issue with advisor/agents that they felt would advise their player for the right reasons to go pro or remain in college. In one situation I am aware of, they felt that one player who was in somewhat of an unusual situation (a senior with no eligibility left) was getting advice from the wrong person. He never made any commitment and the day after he was drafted he got a call from an agency that had never previously contacted him but with a good solid reputation with players on the 40 man and registered with MLB. Actually, son's coach was very helpful in giving advice to those who wanted it.

I think that maybe is why they ask that question on the questionaire about advisors. Swingbuilder can elaborate on that part.

An attorney not registered as an agent can read the contract and speak on the players behalf. The milb contract is not that hard to read and understand and yes become familiar with the college scholarship plan. This is important to discuss with the scout when he meets with your son. I have never heard of anyone not being offered the college scholarship, sometimes may not be what they want, but never offered. As far as bonus payout, teams prefer to stretch it out as much as they can, their reasons I was told, they are somewhat cash conscious mid season and for the player tax wise it's in their best interest. The only thing you might negotiate is when you want the bonus.
I admit it is very confusing, you read before the draft that so and so is being advised by so and so. You see players with agents at the Cape in restaurants, gives the wrong impression as to what is going on.
My only complaint is against advisor/agents, for lower picks who receive no money, someone is waiting in the wings (before and after the draft) to tell him that he can get them more $$ (or other things)if they want to sign and takes money for that advice. Someone told me once that there are some who prey on the lower round drafted guys hoping that someday they might move ahead and convince them that they were the only one that had faith in him.

JMO.

I have been to the NCAA site and have read through some of this, but it was way before this point in our progress towards that MLB goal. I did not remember the "agreed orally" part. That is an eye opener for you all right. Sends a clear message, for what ever reason, if they (NCAA) wanted to make an issue of it with you they certainly could.

I can safely say now, No "advisors" will set foot in my house, nothing personal. I don't want to give any impression to anyone that we have a deal with anyone.

Thanks for the post newagent and I will be going back to the NCAA web site to refreash myself with these items at length.

No one is suggesting that you should not to talk to anyone. Just be carefull who you speak with and don't let anyone force you or your son into a decision (the handshake).

For example, you may have thought that the handshake was the right thing to do, under your assumption that was ok, you are learning. If an advisor/agent gave that impression to you that was the proper thing to do, it was wrong.

before you handcuff yourself. remember most people in the business of getting kids to the next level,(and thats what an advisor does).aren't going to do anything to jepordize a kid,most. just be aware. and you always use the word advisor,that way there is no misunderstanding. don't be gun shy just be aware.

Agents act improperly because they can. If an insitutution acts improperly they are subject to meaningful sanctions by the NCAA ie; scholarship cuts, suspension from play, heavy fines, irritating commentary by Jim Rome etc...If an agent violates the NCAA rules no meaningful sanctions exist. An agent's though is: What is the NCAA going to do to me? Tell me to stop, banish me, deny me access to the campus. Although agents are regulated by statutes, they are rarely enforced. Enforcing athlete agent regulations is not a top priority of our state or federal government.

Do agents engaged in improper communications with athletes? Yes.

Are colleges aware that this goes on? Yes

Is it right? No

So why do they do it? Because in our society, we frown upon whistleblowers. And since everybody does it...

Many agents must chose between being unethical and being unemployed. As someone with first hand experience, I continuously choose the ladder.

With advisors, I always think of the sad story of Matt Harrington.

Between 2000 and 2004, Harrington, a top prospect coming out of high school, was chosen in all five drafts, but never signed a contract despite receiving offers of up to $4 million.

You always hear about Tommy Tanzer being the villian but Scott Boras also failed the family and Matt by not inserting logic into Matt's family the 2nd time he was drafted. With a 8 mph decrease in speed, he wasn't going to get that 4 million back. Not accepting the deal the 3rd time from the Rays was just absurd.

I had a chance to meet Harrington in 2006 when he was with the Fort Worth Cats when they came thru to Pensacola.

He still had the attitude I just want to play baseball.

You can't blame the agents, agents work for the player not the other way around. At some point the player has to take responsiblity for their career.
Maybe the agents were following the players directions.

Newagent have you ever had a child drafted out of High school?

Have you ever represented a player who was drafted out of high school?

Have you ever advised a family who had a son that was drawing interest from pro scouts?

AL MA 08- The purpose of an advisor is that to advise. I see no harm in developing a relationship with an individual who can help steer you through a complicated and stressful time. Further, the same advisor can be helpful throughout the college years for future drafts.

Most college coaches have no problem whatsoever with advisors. They have dealt with them before and are not affected at all.

We found the services of an advisor to be invaluable prior to the draft and were extremely glad that we had developed a close personal relationship with them. My son has since switched agents, but I still personally have a relationship with the original advisor.

As with anything in life there are good advisors and bad advisors. Do your homework. Interview numerous people and talk to clients and former clients. Always be in control of your own situation. There are a lot of Johnny come lately's in the sports representation arena, make sure the person is reputable and established. GM's and scouting directors don't want to be dealing with some hack off the street who thinks he knows the system better than they do.