Is it tougher to play for some of the DII schools that have traditionally good baseball programs than it is to play for a lesser known DI.

There is really no way for anyone to answer that question imo. It could be tougher to break the line up at local juco than a major D1 depending on what posistion your son plays and who is in front of him where he lands. You could be a SS and go juco and find yourself behind an All American SS or you could go to a major D1 and find yourself as the best guy at your posistion.

There are very good players at every level of the game. Small D1's are full of players that can really play just like D2's and D3's. Those kids at that D1 were probably recruited by those same D2's. No matter where you go your going to have to beat someone out that had the same idea and the same intentions as you.

To me it was an easy question. If you play for a small D1 that plays top D1 schools it is the tougher of the two. What D11 schools come close to top D1 schools ?

quote:

Originally posted by NyMetropolitans22:
Is it tougher to play for some of the DII schools that have traditionally good baseball programs than it is to play for a lesser known DI.

Base your choice on the competitiveness of the program. I'd send mine to a better D2 program than to a smaller D1 that can't get to 500 or better.

That's just my opinion, you don't have to attend a program that wins championships year after year, but if the college baseball experience is important in your choice, you don't want to play for a losing program.

quote:

s it tougher to play for some of the DII schools that have traditionally good baseball programs than it is to play for a lesser known DI.

The answer is absolutely YES!
In Ca. for instance, DII schools like Sonoma State and Chico State are nationally ranked and get anywhere from 100 to 150 out in the Fall, I read today on BA that the top 2 pitchers at Pepperdine just transferred to Sonoma State. These teams might not be top 30 DI, but they would be in the next level. They will be much better than lower level DI programs, much better. The same would be said of Tampa, Rollins and other schools in TPM's neck of the woods. While I am not sure current status, UMass-Lowell, Franklin Pierce and other similar schools would be/might have been New England examples.
In my view, you go where there is the best academic fit, the very best coaching, and the situation having the biggest upside, a place you can play and the place the coaches want you on their team.
Can this coaching staff develop you to be a better player, the best player you can be? The ability of the coaching staff to develop your skills, in my view, is so overlooked.
There is great coaching at every level, great coaching. They are the ones who make you better. Who you play never makes you better if your own coaches don't.

Who would be tougher to beat UNC Chapel hill or Sonoma or Chico ?
Who cares about win loss ? If you play weaker teams you will win all day long. If you play top teams and do well it is more rewarding. No comparison.

What good does it do to play UNC and lose 20-2?
BTW, Sonoma State and Chico wouldn't. Neither would Tamps and other top DII schools. You will find many more players drafted out of the top DII programs than lower level DI's.
As I said, who you play does not make you a better player, if you don't have great coaching to develop your skills every day you play in college.
Who you play does not make you better if you are not working and being coached to be better everyday of your college career.

If you lose 20-2 UNC consistently they probably won't put you on their schedule next year.
I would bet they would lose every time they played them and many other top 30 D1 teams.
You are probably right about more drafted out of D11 programs because it is easier to look good against weaker competition.
Eg. A pitcher at a small D1 with an era of 9 and an 0-1 record. He goes to the top D11 and has double digit wins with no losses. Era is 3. Gets drafted and cut after 1.5 years.
Have a friend who was offered book money at a small D1. He is a decent RHP. He goes to a D11 and is their stud pitcher. Tops out at 88mph. The small D1 has 3 guys low to high 90s. He got more opportunity at the D11 and it was not as tough.

Why are you are changing the topic? Of course,
if you can play at a top 30 DI, you go there.
The poster asked about "small DI or Big DII."
As you may know, small DI's end up going 15-40 and the like when they try to compete at the DI level. They are worse if they try to compete against Top DI's, unless they have great coaches, who are great recruiters, who truly develop their talent over 3-4 years.
As I posted before, once you are beyond the top 30 DI schools, the top DII's compete and compete very well.
For your view, I guess professional scouts just cannot project and get fooled..all of them, huh? Those would be the first guys drafted based on their DII stats. Geez, how many threads have been on this site that stats don't matter from HS to college and college to Milb/draft.
I guess all those threads saying stats don't matter, projection does are right, until "you" knew a guy.
Come on, scouts who get "fooled" by the level of competition get fired because they are incompetent. No MLB would tolerate a scout "fooled" by the "lesser" level of competition producing better results.

I know what he asked. It is you who changed the topic. Assuming he wants tougher competition which he isn't clear about, I said it is better to play for a small D1 that plays top 30 teams. (Tougher).

quote:

Is it tougher to play for some of the DII schools that have traditionally good baseball programs than it is to play for a lesser known DI.

Here is NY's question.
Straight answer: It is tougher to play for some of the DII's having traditionally good baseball than to play for "lesser known" DI's.
BTW, I was thinking of your dissing pro scouts and was thinking about its son. Went to a very good DI.
Things didn't work.
Transferred to a DII. Put up great numbers.
Drafted in the 15/16th round.
Now at AA and putting up great numbers.
How about that? I knew a guy or knew of a guy who proved BHD's examples to be wrong.
Using your criteria of a "small DI" playing top 30's, who would that be...after Rice??

So what is going on with Pepperdine?

I feel pretty much in tune with this question since that is precisely the decision that confronted my oldest son last year. He was recruited by middling D1's but elected to sign in the early signing period with one of the more powerful DII's because of their great tradition and no nonsense coach who has the DII college World Series as his only baseball goal each year. He actaully had better scholarship offers in our home state but he wants that chance at the World Series.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
What good does it do to play UNC and lose 20-2?
BTW, Sonoma State and Chico wouldn't. Neither would Tamps and other top DII schools. You will find many more players drafted out of the top DII programs than lower level DI's.
As I said, who you play does not make you a better player, if you don't have great coaching to develop your skills every day you play in college.
Who you play does not make you better if you are not working and being coached to be better everyday of your college career.

Say hey, infielddad, right on.
Who cares about a winning program? Losing programs means constant coach and player turnover. Who wants to go play for a program like that? I know my player wouldn't want that. I don't care where it was located.
I didn't read anything in the OP question about which would be better for the draft, so why bring that up? FWIW, in son's organization, there are many players who came from other programs besides D1.
I don't get your posts BHD, in many posts you state it's not about stats and now it is, which is it?

If stats really mattered, doubt that mine would have been a high draft choice.

It's good for any program to play tougher teams, but if you are going to get blown away each and every time, what is the benefit?

We had a great offer from a small D1 in the north and another offer from a mid sized northern D1 along with an offers from top D11's in strong conferences in the south. The D11 had better coaching and better facilities than both D1's in the north. We chose the D11. Subsequently the mid level D1 folded their program and the small D1 dumped their head coach before the start last season. The D11's strong conference, top ranking and good coaching sure out weighed the D1 lure. Add the southern climate to the mix means they are out doors way sooner. My kid didn't want to practice in the gymnasium with 3 feet of snow outside. He'll practice this winter in a baseball only dedicated indoor facility. D11 schools get the attention of MLB scouts as well.

TPM

I quote you "I would send mine......."

So you did make the choce for him---most of us don't send our kids anywhere---they make the choice

My last guy chose NMSU because HE felt that since they were a under 500 program at that time his chances of playing were better and they played the same programs that the top programs played(His first start was against ASU in Tempe)---that was what HE wanted---HE wanted to play against the best--HE was part of one of their top recruiting classes in the schools history----HE was part of a team that broke the school home run record, since broken. HE was the player that hit the home run that was the record breaker---HE had a great career there and got his degree and I didn't send him there---HE chose

You are not the only poster who puts it the way you do----others use "we didn't...." or "we did" phrase

I find that very interesting---when does HE begin to make decisions ?

I took the posters question this way. Is it tougher to play for some D2 schools that have a good program than it is to play for a lesser known D1. In other words is it tougher to get playing time at a traditional D2 power than it is at a weak D1.

The answer would depend on so many factors its impossible to answer that question in your situation. Could it be? Yes. Could it not be? Yes.

How good is your son?
How good are the players that he will be competing against for playing time?

A perfect example would be your son chooses a D2 school believeing that the competition will be less for playing time than the D1 he is offered at. He is a catcher. He finds that both the catchers at the D2 are better than he is or at least better right now than he is. Or - He goes to the D1 and he finds that he is better than the catchers at this school or at least as good and gets playing time as a freshman.

I have read on this site and heard others say many times "My son is going to ______ JC because he doesnt want to sit for two years at State U just so he can say he went D1. Its important for him to get early playing time."

Now who is going to sit the bench at this JUCO? Do they only roster 8 posistion players and 6 pitchers? No there will be guys sitting the bench that had the same idea that you did.

If your afraid to compete then dont go to play college sports period. If you have to start to be happy then constantly move until you find a place you can start at. If you think by "Playing down" you will guarantee youself a starting role then look out.

You choose the school that you believe is the best fit for you. That fit is determined by what your goals are , what is important to you , both academically and athletically. That is different for everyone. But if your baseing your decision on where will you face the least amount of competition for playing time then what happens when you get there and your not good enough to start as a freshman?

Yes you can research rosters and see where you might find the least amount of competition. You can research and investigate and hope it all works out. But you will have to compete. No matter where you go you will have to compete.

quote:

If your afraid to compete then don't go to play college sports period. If you have to start to be happy then constantly move until you find a place you can start at. If you think by "Playing down" you will guarantee yourself a starting role then look out.

I agree with you take on this. I also questioned the advice on going JC so you don't have to sit. You could show up at a JC with 100 guys trying out. You may not even make the team. I'm not sure what lesser D1 means but assuming a non winning program. You may be surprised at the quality of players at these programs.
I also agree that no matter where you go you have to compete. Also agree with you should consider your goals.
My son's goal was to face top D1 schools which he did.
TPM I never brought up pro ball. It's funny you don't understand what I said even though I have explained our goals over the years to you several times. I have even laid out his goals several times to you. He loved his 4 years at his college and his coaches were very good to him.
We had several D11 offers and my son wouldn't even consider them. One was the best monetary offer we got. I tried to sell him on that one. Also had offers from top JCs but my son didn't want to transfer. He wanted to spend 4 years at the same school.

Excellent post Coach May. It is at the end of the day about competition.

The question was which is tougher not which is better BHD. I would argue in general that the tougher one is likely the better one as well however but there are no universal rules that would prescribe one over the other. Much of this is based on personal preferences.

IMHO, it is tougher to play a premier D2 program like Tampa, Florida Southern, Franklin Pierce, Sonoma, Chico etc. than it is to play at a low-level D1. I think at the top D2 programs you will find committed coaches who have little tolerance for losing. That implies they are starting with great players and coaching them up. As Coach May so aptly points out, none of these things are known until you show up to compete. There are probably many cases where the lessor program might in fact be "tougher" depending on who you are competing with during a given year. There are D3 programs out there that may be tougher than all three scenarios depending on circumstances.

There is no single better way or right answer to this question. It's all about an individual's choice. BHD's son made the correct choice for him. Others may make a different decision. My son ended up at a highly-competitive D2 program. It's the right fit for him. It all depends on what you want. He liked being part of a winning program that went to the national tournament. Some of his good friends played on different D1's that went about 15-40, but they did get in a number of games against the big boys. There's something to be said for either path. Coach May is right about people who think one isn't as tough as the other. No matter what the level, players are going to find fierce competition. If you think jobs will be handed out just because it's D2 or a losing D1 program, think again. Guys are out there to win playing time and nobody is given anything. Coaches who want to win will recruit over you with transfers and under you with freshman, and those guys expect to play, too. So no matter where you go, you'd better pack your lunch and be ready to get after it. Or else you'll be watching somebody else play.