What do you all think are some of the better big ten baseball programs

Ohio State and Minnesota are the class of the conference by far.

Agree with double...The rest, in my opinion, are pretenders...except that Michigan and Maloney and his staff might make a "splash" this year.

Biggest problem...not enough quality arms that stay in the Midwest. If they're good, they're gone...South or West.

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One of the funnier things that I've heard or read...At one of the "camps" held by one of the teams from time to time, a coach was heard to tell the kids at the camp....They only recruit 90+ throwers; 6.7 runners; and 87 across the infield.

Imagine...a team with kids of that type of ability in the Big 10/11...Not in this lifetime!

Keep an eye on Iowa--

TRhit

It's been many years since the U of WI dropped it baseball in favor of the fan favorite, womens crew. The thought of a major university, in a top athletic conference dropping a baseball program makes my stomach turn. To top that off, last year the Madison Mallards http://www.mallardsbaseball.com/2003/ a team in the NCAA sactioned Northern League drew an average attendance of 4,400 for 30 home dates, and on a few dates during the summer outdrew a handful of MLB teams for the night. I know the U of WI college program was not a money maker, but what college baseball program is?

Sorry to vent, but my disappointment is not only with the U of WI, but also with the Big 10 conference as a whole for not putting together consistant programs. Sure there are weather related issues, but it's an issue not an excuse. This mentality only further illustrates the roadblocks all College, HS, and travel teams from the North have when going South to play. So when you Southern folks see a baseball team of sun deprived kids that have a bit of a "nasal" accent, welcome them and respect their game because many of those in charge in the North do not.

As rz1 jumps off his soapbox...........

Just in the paper this weekend was an article about meetings currently going on between Penn State and the Altoona Curve regarding bringing a minor league team to State College and building a new minor league stadium that will be shared with the Nittany Lions baseball team. Besides the baseball offices, it will house the growing sports journalism department at the university. They are hoping it will be complete within 2 years. Altho the current workout facilities are top-notch at PSU (due to Paterno and the football team), the current field is a very basic one. Great shape but no bells or whistles. Now, if they could just get rid of the snow in March and April! lol.

RZ1 Good Post!

It is a shame --wasn't aware that U of Wisconsin did not have a baseball program.

Moc1

rz...Baseball programs that make money...I believe that Mississippi State, LSU, Auburn and Alabama make money for the university.

If they don't, then they have "creative" accounting in place.

Pitcher7535,

Last year's regular season top 5 standings for Big10:

Minnesota, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Northwestern

Last year's Big10 championship tournament top 5 standings:

Ohio State, Minnesota, Penn State, Michigan, Northwestern

Ohio State and Minnesota received bids to the World Series in 2003.

I certainly wouldn't classify all Big10 teams besides Ohio State and Minnesota as "pretender" teams. I'm sure there are many of us who could only dream of "pretending" at this level, or ANY level of college baseball.

Moc1- A embarassing secret that the UW athletic dept will not touch because it is politically suicidal to go there.

Beenthere- Do you mean that there may be a handful of schools that make money but others show being in the black in the books only. I had always thought that because of small gates, high overhead, and lack of administrative support that over 80% of 300 D1 baseball teams run in the red.

luv...While the Big 10/11 might be a "stud-muffin" conference in football and basketball, it is only the 10-15th conference in the level of baseball played.

rz..you have a pm...No such thing as a small gate at Alabama, Auburn, LSU and Mississippi State. Routine weekend crowds of 5,000 to 10,000. Many SEC schools have several thousand season ticketholders money in the bank long before the next season starts.

If they (those schools or likely the SEC as a whole) lose money in their baseball programs, then, in my opinion, they have "creative" accountants. Especially nowadays where the "booster organizations" pick up a portion of the salaries of the head coach or the head coach and his minions make/makes bushelfull/s of money from their "camps" (otherwise known as goldmine).

fng,
I saw who the transfer from Wke is and the transfer from Auburn, but who transferred from UVA?

I can tell you that my son was very impressed with the pitching that Northwestern had when he played them.

And "ITCH" Jones at Illinois is one of the most respected coaches in the college game

TRhit

Been,

Altho your need to look down upon certain programs/conferences doesn't surprise me, it still baffles me. "Studmuffin" school, or not....every boy who works hard and makes a college baseball team (regardless of conference), deserves respect and shouldn't be demeaned as being classified as a member of a "pretender team". By doing so you negate all the hard work, sweat and sacrifice these young men put into baseball.

Seriously tho, I am curious...what criteria do you use in defining what a "pretender" program is? Do you have to be on a traditionally top 25 D-1 team to be considered on a "real" team? Does the team have to be a money maker for the school? Are the boys who play for teams like Princeton, Harvard, Navy, Army (#145, #205, #223, #259 rankings respectively) considered to be on "pretender" teams because of their over-all ranking and conference affiliation (despite the fact that they get wonderful educations at these schools, "pretender" status or not)? Just curious as to what your thought process is when you label a program a "pretender".

Just can't agree with the proposition that all the "quality arms" go South or West. I watched a pitcher from Northwestern several times this summer and he was as good as anyone I have seen. I regularly go to Stanford, Cal, Santa Clara games and watch upwards of 15 games during the NECBL season including games involving Team USA. Dan Konecny from Northwestern can compete with just about anyone and is someone I would classify as a "very quality arm."

Ohio State and Minnesota are traditionally the top teams in the Big 10.

As far as baseball is concerned, the Big 10 is lacking compared to the rest of the country. Alot has to do with the climate we are in. No discredit to these schools baseball programs, but their facilities don't compare to the SEC, ACC, PAC 10 or Big 12's of the world.

Nobody down south has ever mistaken the Big 10 for a baseball juggernaut conference.

Slidepiece,

I agree. The fields are NOwhere near what they have down south. However, the "indoor" facilities are fantastic, due in LARGE part to the "studmuffin" football programs and the revenue they bring in. I'm sure the indoor facilities are fantastic in the SEC too (due in large part to "baseball" revenue). There is good talent in the Big 10, however, compared to the overall talent in the SEC....the numbers don't match up. Many northern players want to go down south due to the climate and "prestige"....who can blame them? Does that negate the amount of work and dedication Big10 players, and all other northern players and their teams, put into their programs? Absolutely not. Does that mean they are "pretenders"? Tell that to the guys who are down in the weight room at 5:30 a.m. every morning for their workouts, and have their days filled with classes and MORE workouts. I'll bet they give the same amount of effort as their SEC counterparts. The end result may not be the same....but they are hardly pretenders. I'm not comparing the Big10 to the SEC....that would be like comparing apples to oranges...there is no comparison. But, I just find it disconcerning when someone looks down their nose at a whole group of teams because they don't "measure up" and are lower in the rankings than "REAL" teams. It is a disservice to call them "pretenders".

Perhaps one day "certain people" will realize that there is baseball outside of the SEC--didn't see an SEC team in the CWS final last year did we ?

And yes the kids in other conferences work as hard if not harder on their game

TRhit

TRhit and luvbb-

I won't say that the Big 10 players work harder than the SEC players, or the other way around. I agree completely with the prestige thing as well. Years ago if you were the best college football player in the land, where did you go? Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. Baseball is the same way. Why go to Notre Dame, even though they are an up and coming program in the country, when Arizona State, Florida State or LSU is calling? I think tradition helps funnel those players year after year to those perennial powers.

Let's face it, college baseball doesn't get the attention other college sports do, namely football and baseball. Naive sports people think of baseball they just assume the big 10 must be good because it's the Big 10. It's a misconception among the new generation of fans. The Big 10 is lacking in top teams. Give it a few years and I think people will realize that a Rice University is better than a Purdue. In baseball that is!

Remember when Texas won the CWS 20 some years ago with Roger Clemens, Calvin Shiraldi and Dennis Cook (who by the way DHed for Texas). Not many do, but the real spark on that team was a little pain in the butt SS named Billy Bates. Look back at the NCAA basketball tournament and everybody remembers how little Billy Donovan carried Providence to the Final Four. That probably has something to do with the fact that he's a big time coach now.

Once College Baseball gets some more air time on the TV people will be able to categorize the great conferences from the middle of the road.

BTW, the SEC might not have been represented last year, but I've been to Omaha when they've had 3 teams in the tourney. That conference is loaded from top to bottom.

luv....I'm not trying to be politically correct nor am I attempting to demean anyone's effort in attempting to improve their physical abilities.

And yes, there are pitchers and teams in the Big 10 that can compete and even beat plenty of the SEC teams. So what?

My son is considering an Ivy as one of his final choices. OUt of a 10 game series the SEC teams win 8 out of 10. That doesn't say anything about kids working hard or anything except that the best Ivy team would lose 8 out of 10 games to the best SEC team.

Why are you picking and chosing and taking things out of context?

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Cute, TR...One year. Did you forget that LSU won 5 National Championships in the '90's? How about the committees that select the playoff regions making sure that the SEC teams knock each other off so that they are certain that they don't have 4 or 5 of the 8 World Series slots filled with SEC teams?

Fact is fact...Year in and year out (especially in the last 30 years), the best collegiate baseball is played by teams in the SEC.