It seems an appropriate time to check in with the pitchers around the country. Some pitchers spent the off-season involved in intense training. Some played other sports. Some "dabbled" in baseball indoors. Others did NOTHING.

Now that everyone is gearing up for their HS season, which pitchers are seeing a jump in their velocity from last season? I know it won't be scientific and results will vary from kid to kid depending on outside factors (like growth, maturity), but which methods within a player's control seem to have made a difference for your son?

Kudos to those who can throw harder but in my opinion those who can show improvement in location and "pitch management" are the one's who have really taken the next step.

Amen rz. Some may disagree but painting the black, knee high with something that wiggles a little this way, and that way, over and over, all the live long day, makes for a happy coach. Ask Mike Pelfrey what it's like to throw 95 without getting your CB over. He turned into Cajun bait last year.

EDIT: Pitching "off" the fastball makes life easy.

Ahhhh, the I don't have it so it's no good crowd has arrived.

No wiggle, no movement, no change of speed is worth a d a m n if you first don't stress the hitter with velocity. There is a velocity "threshold" that must be reached (depending on your level) before anything else matters.

The only exception is the knuckleball.

KC,
I have to agree with rz on this one.

What progress a pitcher accomplishes in the off season should not solely be based on gain in velocity. In my son's case, he worked on perfecting his slider in the fall, and again working on changing speeds in his pitches, and movement. Taking time off for rest, getting back into a regular throwing program with conditioning, long toss and effective bullpens to hit your spots is most important. Velocity gains, in many pitchers usually will show up later in the season.
Increase in velocity comes naturally to many if attention is placed on proper mechanics and good conditioning. The way I see it anyone can throw, not everyone can pitch.

Linear,
My son has it, so does Dad's and rz's.
What I can tell you is that if my son's 93-94 mph fastball goes directly in a straight line towards the batter, he's looking at one hit 340-400 over his head, in his level of play.
If one wants to get to the "next" level and succeed as an effective pitcher, you better have a lot more that 90+ to give the opposition.
Oh and he would be pretty tired by the end of the first inning I would assume.

Linear

Pitching off the fastball is understood, I thought by everyone, as being most effective. It goes unsaid, but I edited my post for those those unaware.

quote:

Ahhhh, the I don't have it so it's no good crowd has arrived.

No wiggle, no movement, no change of speed is worth a d a m n if you first don't stress the hitter with velocity. There is a velocity "threshold" that must be reached (depending on your level) before anything else matters.

WOW. What a statement Linear.

I'll take a staff of HS pitchers who can locate a pitch and have no fear of throwing off-speed at any time in a count over over the thug that closes his eyes and lets it go.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Ahhhh, the I don't have it so it's no good crowd has arrived.

No wiggle, no movement, no change of speed is worth a d a m n if you first don't stress the hitter with velocity. There is a velocity "threshold" that must be reached (depending on your level) before anything else matters.

WOW. What a statement

I'll take a staff of HS pitchers who can locate a pitch and have no fear of throwing off-spped at any time in a count over over the thug that closes his eyes and lets it go.

Of course you would. And you also have to add "who closes his eyes" to make your point. It doesn't hold water otherwise.

quote:

Of course you would. And you also have to add "who closes his eyes" to make your point. It doesn't hold water otherwise.

Linear, So you saying that if you throw hard you to need to have good location? So work on location and then velocity

I AGREE

My son added 6 mph in the offseason to his fastball (he wasn't very fast to begin with though) from a little weight training and 5 months of pitching lessons. He did pick up a splitter though that drops like a rock.

I agree with rz and Dad. Velocity is great but number one is keep it low and change sppeds and hit your spots.

Gotta go with the "Control/Movement" crowd on this one. Velo is a wonderful thing, but as many threads on this site have addressed the fact that the straighter you are, the faster you better be. At some level, a minumum speed is probably necessary, but up to the top level, I think the control and movement can afford you much success.

No, Linear, my Junior DOESN'T have it - but he has played with plenty of kids who had a heckuva lot more than him, but WAY less success.

Unfortunately, there is a hard limit for every pitcher, relative to his top speed; there is also a real, somewhat lower limit. There is no real limit to movement and control - you can always improve on them.

No telling where my guy will finish velo-wise, but his success in Legion ball, and last year in a college level summer league [0.99 ERA], inclusing 5 shutout innings in the NABF College World Series have shown me that it's not only speed that kills. Whether you baffle 'em or blow 'em away, outs are outs.

quote:

Ask Mike Pelfrey what it's like to throw 95 without getting your CB over. He turned into Cajun bait last year.

And he's about to sign for a possible 6 million plus major league contract which is very rare.
__________________

I agree with the above posts about location, etc... just thought the Pelfrey comment was a little over the top.

quote:

And he's about to sign for a possible 6 million plus major league contract which is very rare.

I guess he had a bad day. He got through the line up ok once. Unfortunately they left him in for the one more round. I thought scrutiny went with a pick that high.

This wasn't intended to be an either/or question! I simply wondered what methods of off-season workouts (or rest) worked for your son.
Of course you need to put the ball over the plate. My question referred to what players did to increase their velocity. I wasn't trying to say that velocity was all that mattered!
Both location and velocity will get you noticed and you'll end up with success.
We've got one kid on our varsity who throws 90+ and can't find the strike zone. He sure scares the heck out of freshmen! Another LHP throws nothing but movement, never breaking 78mph. He's very succesfull against lesser teams, but disciplined players wait on his curve and crush him. I wish we could put the ability of those two together!
Just a velocity question, folks! Not trying to start an argument (though some people seem to be looking for one!).

KC,
I hear ya, but as you can see, is a HOT topic around here.

About six weeks of no pitching, to give his arm time for recovery (played HS ball last spring, select for summer & fall). Continued to work out with weights (baseball oriented workout) a couple of times a week. Plenty of running. Elastic band work.

Eased back into bullpens after the first. Looking good with plenty of pop on the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by Linear:
Ahhhh, the I don't have it so it's no good crowd has arrived.

No wiggle, no movement, no change of speed is worth a d a m n if you first don't stress the hitter with velocity. There is a velocity "threshold" that must be reached (depending on your level) before anything else matters.

The only exception is the knuckleball.

Now for the off-topic.

And what is that threshold for HS, college & pro (respectively)?

quote:

Definition for threshold by Dictionary.com
a point of beginning : a minimum requirement for further action;

Again it is my opinion, that is not shared by all is that in this case velocity is the "minimuim requirement" and location is the "further action". It is all relative.

A HS or college pitcher throwing 90, but can't hit the side of a barn, may be overlooked. The same pitcher throwing 83 and moving the ball in/out up/down can be a highly touted commodity. where's the threshold? I see "further action" as the key. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the ability to get outs.

In the pro ranks, there may be a different perception.

quote:

I simply wondered what methods of off-season workouts (or rest) worked for your son.

KC

I can tell you that prolonged periods of inactivity, "resting the arm" have quickly rusted mechanics and eroded velocity. The most constant periods of good velocity and command to start the season were preceded by consistant long toss, "dry work" and lots throwing in scrimmage. The best velocity was at the end of the year, as TPM says.

I wonder about the prolonged periods of rest prescribed by some and their possible negative effect, especially for the smooth non-max effort throwers.

What do you considered "prolonged", Dad04?