I think this would be an interesting line of discussion for aspiring Pitchers ...

As the level of competition increases from High School, to College, to MiLB, to MLB, how would you rank the importance of these pitching attributes?

Real Veleocity -- what the radar gun says

Perceived velocity -- how fast the pitcher looks to the hitter

Effective Velocity -- the ability to change speeds and locations in a way that keeps hitters off balance

Location -- the ability to consistently spot your pitches where you want them

Movement -- particularly late movement

Poise & Presence -- the ability to keep his head and focus

Competivite Grit -- the ability to perform under pressure

The Intangibles -- those things that winners just seem to have

How would you stack them up for each of the levels? Why? What leads to any changes in the prioritization?

If I have left something off the list, please feel free to add your own. Thank you.

The big four have always been and will always be, in this order:

Velocity
Location
Movement
Deception

And a good breaking pitching has all four attributes.

i think the percieved velocity is the big sleeper. i think initialy velocity would be on the top of any list. as well as location, but as you climb the ladder that list shuffles.

poise & presence moves up the list as well as grit.

every spring there are quite a few milb pitchers released that throw in the 90's. why? who knows,but velocity will get you signed, getting people out will keep you there.

Are we talking about getting scouted or pitching well? There is a big difference. If we're talking about getting drafted the Bum's list looks accurate with a close call for 3 and 4 between movement and deception. If we're talking about being effective, then I believe that each attribute plays its own part; The list could go in any order depending on the pitcher.

1. Intangibles
2. Poise and Presence
3. Competitive Grit
4. Location
5. Movement
6. Effective Velocity
7. Perceived Velocity
8. Real Velocity

quote:

Originally posted by MWestbury:
Are we talking about getting scouted or pitching well? There is a big difference. If we're talking about getting drafted the Bum's list looks accurate with a close call for 3 and 4 between movement and deception. If we're talking about being effective, then I believe that each attribute plays its own part; The list could go in any order depending on the pitcher.

If we're just talking about being effective, then you can rank the top 3:

Strikeout
Ground Out
Flyout.

At first I was going to make a snide comment about ygpbb’s post, however I went back and re-read the question and understand why he put them in this order. As Alan Jaeger (and many others) has said, the higher up you go in baseball the more importance mental aspects of the game are.

However, for someone in high school to think that you can get there (or even make a HS team) with intangibles, poise and presence and competitive grit, is just not realistic. By the time you get to the MLB, all of the players have the physical talents, what separates them is their mental capabilities, which ygpbb’s was indirectly referring to. To get there however you MUST have Velocity, Location, Movement and Deception. For a developing HS pitcher you must be focused on gaining velocity continually, but not over obsessed with it.

SPD left off projectability, which for a HS player is huge in getting a look. You may not have it all packaged together just yet, but a college or pro-scout will be looking at you to some extent based on their perceived projectability of you.

That said,l at least at the college level, they are looking for guys who can get outs. These are the exact words a college coach said to me in Arizona a few weeks ago. He said if it was only velocity we would just line them all up and see who threw the hardest.

Very true BOF.

I guess I was just thinking as a professional pitcher. To think back as a high school pitcher I would say my priority was different:

1. Real Velocity
2. Perceived Velocity
3. Effective Velocity
4. Location
5. Movement
6. Competitive Grit
7. Intangibles
8. Poise and Presence

If I was able to change this in high school (knowing what I know today), my priorities might be:

1. Real Velocity
2. Effective Velocity
3. Movement
4. Location
5. Perceived Velocity
6. Poise and Presence
7. Competitive Grit
8. Intangibles

This would be the most measurable by scouts, therefore the best chances to get to that next level (college or pro).

My list as of today is in the above post.

Bottom line, every pitcher is different, and every pitcher will make different choices in their careers. This will determine how their list looks now and in the future.