I was listening to a Jays game last night and 3 of their pitchers claimed TJ surgery add about 3 MPH to their FB. One guy had it twice and said the same thing.
We have all heard this before but this was right out of the guys mouths. All said the surgery gave them new life and their arms felt great.

Perhaps this explains why kids have so many TJ operations at early ages---parents hear this and think they will have a son with a bionic arm

No one seems to talk about the 5% of the TJ surgeries that are failures, do they? Kind of tough if you end up being one of the five out of a hundred.

Given the effects of steroids do you think those odds would deter someone ?

I doubt it's the surgery.

Two explanations come to mind. First, the person may have had a partial tear before the major injury was noticed. His performance may have been lagging for some time.

Secondly, the rehab work you do after TJ is really work you should always do -- but most don't. It's not unusual for guys to come out of rehabs for various injuries reporting that they feel "stronger than ever," because sometimes they have indeed built up their supporting muscles further than ever before.

My suggestion would be, do the exercises BEFORE you get hurt. Maybe you can have that extra 3 mph without the surgery and recovery period.

Midlo these are ML pitchers who throw in the mid to high 90s. I think they did things right for years. One guy had it twice and no he didn't gain another 3 MPH after the 2nd surgery.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I doubt it's the surgery.

Two explanations come to mind. First, the person may have had a partial tear before the major injury was noticed. His performance may have been lagging for some time.

Secondly, the rehab work you do after TJ is really work you should always do -- but most don't. It's not unusual for guys to come out of rehabs for various injuries reporting that they feel "stronger than ever," because sometimes they have indeed built up their supporting muscles further than ever before.

My suggestion would be, do the exercises BEFORE you get hurt. Maybe you can have that extra 3 mph without the surgery and recovery period.

Also, to sort of piggyback off what Midlo Dad said, I would think that the rest due to the surgery would be helpful as well. Most players now (especially as you go up the levels) take less and less time off and it's possible/probable that the rest that TJ requires is the only extended time their bodies have to recover to get back near 100%. This would be even more true for players that have "minor" injuries (outside of their elbow)that are never given time to heal because players often play through these "minor" issues.

Most ML pitchers have months off in the winter. An athlete does not require the lay off that others require.
TJ rehab is a gruelling process and the rest may occur early but as they rehab they work their tails off. At that level after a couple weeks of pitching in the season you are as tired as you will ever get. The whole concept of working out as hard as they do is so they can recover quickly from the stress of pitching. The clubs are very up on the capability of pitchers and what they can take. many need 4 days and they are like new.

I agree that a good percentage of professional pitchers throw with better velocity after having TJ. But we are much more likely to hear about them than the others who didn't make it to that level of competition. Even the pro pitchers who fell by the wayside after surgery are seldom talked about.

My son had TJ in 2000. Before TJ he was a low 3/4 guy who would top out in the upper 90s. After TJ he reinvented himself as a pitcher, changed to a bit higher 3/4, but he didn't have the same life or velocity as before. Still did make it back to the Big Leagues in 2004, but was a sinker/slider low 90s guy rather than a upper 90s power guy. He did not gain velocity, in fact, he lost velocity and had to change the way he pitched after TJ.

I certainly agree that not all pitchers come back to where they were or better.
I have seen several guys who had TJ surgery and I know of 1 who didnot come back and quit playing. He was a cathcher and my opinion was he was not prepared to put the work in.
Others who had it in college did come back and threw slightly harder. One guy was habitually having arm injuries and he graduated from a D1 school in Arkansas . He has 1 year of eligibility left . Also has ML clubs talking to him. He maintained his velocity but didn't increase .

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I agree that a good percentage of professional pitchers throw with better velocity after having TJ. But we are much more likely to hear about them than the others who didn't make it to that level of competition. Even the pro pitchers who fell by the wayside after surgery are seldom talked about.

My son had TJ in 2000. Before TJ he was a low 3/4 guy who would top out in the upper 90s. After TJ he reinvented himself as a pitcher, changed to a bit higher 3/4, but he didn't have the same life or velocity as before. Still did make it back to the Big Leagues in 2004, but was a sinker/slider low 90s guy rather than a upper 90s power guy. He did not gain velocity, in fact, he lost velocity and had to change the way he pitched after TJ.

I agree with PG. There have been many many pitchers who have not gained velo after TJS.

My understanding is that success rate has improved for pitchers due to advance in the technique and rehab. I also have heard that the added velo most likely was always there to begin with or in reinventing themselves as pitchers the added velo is or isn't a result. Theree are some parents whose son have had TJS, maybe they can contribute to the discussion.

I also do agree with TR, the added publicity of increased velocity has an effect on uneducated people thinking that TJS will increase velocity (remembering that article someone posted a while back).

quote:

Midlo these are ML pitchers who throw in the mid to high 90s. I think they did things right for years.

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you'd be surprised what some guy's don't do.

my son is at 14 months since surgery. has arm strength but still a little short of his before radar number. but has good movement etc. struggles at times with control. but that's normal for the first season after tjs. so they say. i think any gains made are through rest and rehab. if you can't throw 99 you won't. surgery or not. jmo.

The success rate for Tommy John surgery is nearly 100%. Once the surgery is done your arm is fixed barring any complications. That being said how strong you come back depends on how committed you are in your rehab. My son is in his 7th week of rehab.

The rehab protocol has been so refined thru trial and error that your therapy and objectives are laid out almost to the day. If you follow it you should come back stronger.

The reason so many pitchers come back stronger is because for the first time they can concentrate on strengthening the total body. My sons rehab specialist said the rehab will take care of his arm. He needs to take this time to work the rest of his body and get it as strong as possible. I know people will say that they work out, but this is the first time that the athlete has the time to just focus on his body and strengthen his back, his lower core, his legs and not just his arm strength. If you work hard in all these areas and don't rush the arm rehab. You have a very good chance of coming back stronger.

Once you start the throwing part of the rehab you also have the time to really work on your mechanics.

So it's not just your rehab but how hard you work the whole body that decide's how strong you come back.


Also my son is only 16 and their are many comments from people who say the parents want this surgery so the kids will throw harder. I have yet to meet anyone who wanted their son to go thru this. My son will miss his junior year and this was the last thing he wanted. Anyone who thinks this is a minor surgery is sadly mistaken.

Hope this makes sense.

Banditsbb

I just ran across this interview of Frank Jobe (the first surgeon to perform TJ) by Jonah Keri where the issues from this forum are addressed:

BP: Speaking of getting back to where you were before and getting back to elbows, we've heard from quite a few pitchers, swearing they throw harder after Tommy John surgery than they did before. Is this possible?

FJ: When a pitcher comes in with elbow problems, you often see that their ligaments were already wearing out well before. Maybe four or five years ago they could throw a 95 mile an hour fastball, but they've had that ability diminished as the ligament's been stretched. What the surgery does is restore the ligament's stability to where it was four or five years ago. A pitcher might say the operation did it, but it's just more stability in the arm contributing to better mechanics.

BP: Would a pitcher ever consider getting elective Tommy John surgery, just hoping to get that fastball?

FJ: It wouldn't help if you didn't have it before. All the surgery does is get you back to your normal elbow. You either have the stuff or you don't. A player that reaches the majors, he's spent years in the minors improving, making his mechanics better, with his muscles getting stronger.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/bp/1431308.html

Here is what Dr. James Andrews told me to my face. "TJ surgery does NOT add MPH to anyone's fastball. It is the rehab that is the miracle worker. ONLY 87% of his surgeries are 100% successful."
That being said, from the bottom of my heart I wish my son NEVER had TJ surgery. Although the surgery was successful, it was an HORRIFIC ordeal for everyone to endure. Working his way back has taken a total of 4 years because after being out so long he had to have time to relearn to pitch.

IntheMitt,
My son's BF (pitcher)had TJ surgery and it took almost 3 years to make it back to where he wanted to be. One of the reasons, he did have to learn how to reinvent himself as a pitcher to avoid issues that hurt his elbow in the first place.

Luckily for him he had a pitching coach who was very patient and able to help him make those adjustments but it took a long time. He was just drafted third round.

I know how important the rehab is, but so is the instruction one receives after they begin a throwing program. JMO.

I have also heard a couple of doctors on the radio state that after you have the surgery the new ligament immediately begins the process of stretching and if you continue to pitch, you will need the surgery again in 8-10 years. This may not be a big deal to a veteran pitcher that may not have many years left, but to a young kid that means another surgery and more rehab. That is pretty tough.