http://www.littleleague.org/media/Pitch_Count_Regulation_06.pdf

At first glance, this looks like a pretty fair option. It would defintiely force the coaches to develop more pitching.

It's a good step forward.

I don't know why they are making it an option instead of a standard rule.

The biggest problem I see is "Who keeps the pitch count" and the arguments that this situation causes. Some league have barely enough volunteers as it is, so finding another person to take some responsibility per game may be difficult.

According to the web site, this is also an attempt to study the effects, in terms of player health, which they will "leave to the medical professionals." It also looks like the "official scorer" will do it, but many leagues leave the scoring to the "home team."

Based on what I know, I think the counts are still too high and the days rest between starts are still too few.

Kids need to throw more and more often.

quote:

Originally posted by Linear:
Kids need to throw more and more often.

Agree with Linear.

Monitored - but definitely need to build up arm strength appropriately.

IMO.

Doesnt anyone play CATCH anymore?????

There is a huge difference between throwing to play catch and pitching in a game.

I'm not opposed to kids playing catch.

I'm concerned with limiting how much they pitch in games (due to the pressure to always throw 100%).

I thought you were into "reducing injury"?

I AM into reducing injuries.

What makes you think I'm not?

There is a difference between throwing and competitive pitching and between competitive pitching and batting practice pitching.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Chris:
Based on what I know, I think the counts are still too high and the days rest between starts are still too few.

Oh, I don't know.

Huh?

By that I mean that they should allow fewer pitches per outing and more days per outings.

I know what you mean.

And it's incorrect.

You're not going to build arm strength by not throwing.

My recliner here feels real good. I hope my arm is stengthening.

Let me post here something I posted elsewhere...

When you are talking about young kids (e.g. 11-16), arm strength is IRRELEVANT to whether they will be injured or not.

Actually, that's not entirely correct. In the case of an adolescent, the stronger their muscles are, the MORE likely they are to be injured (by injuring themselves).

The problem is that a system is only as strong as its weakest link. For a boy who is between 11 and 16, the weakest links in the chain are their growth plates (especially of the Medial Epicondyle). It doesn't matter how strong your muscles are if the bones to which they are anchored are made up of (inherently weak) growth cartilage.

In plain english, it means that adolescents have the muscles of adults but the bones of children. No amount of arm strength can change that fact (and will often only make things worse).

So why did the people of my generation (when we were kids) play baseball from sun up to sun down, on the sandlot all day, and then a game 3 nights per week, plus practices, throwing upwards of 200-300 throws per day every day, a very high percentage of which were stress throws, and my generation has less arm injuries than today?

You really think the doctors know anything about training an arm? Let me clue you in.....doctors repair arms......they do not train them. And if you ask a doctor who repairs arms what caused this or what to do in the future, just what possibly can he say......"Duh.....I think if you'd throw less this wouldn't have happened." No ****! If I'd stop playing completely this wouldn't have happened.

Risk v Reward. Analyze it. Study it. Don't listen to a doctor telling you how to train your arm.

Linear

God forbid I correct you but a good ortho/sports doc can keep a young arm from being repaired--get their advice from the outset and a load of problems wont happen

Just curious as to what the limits are--my computer won't open the document. I also noticed that it said it is looking into limiting or banning breaking pitches? How on earth would they do that? The umps in our area wouldn't know a breaking pitch if it hit them in the head (no offense to all umps--just the volunteers we get from the stands). Also, what exactly determines a breaking pitch? A CB obviously but my son throws a sinker that moves and all he does is grip the ball differently. Anyway in our neck of the woods that would be nearly impossible to enforce. Fortunatly my oldest won't be doing LL and my 10 yo will be playing his last year there. Mind you I do think it is important to monitor pitchers and count their pitches, I'm all into that but not sure how it would work for many of the LL that are terribly unorganized and into Daddy Ball. JMHO

"So why did the people of my generation (when we were kids) play baseball from sun up to sun down, on the sandlot all day, and then a game 3 nights per week, plus practices, throwing upwards of 200-300 throws per day every day, a very high percentage of which were stress throws, and my generation has less arm injuries than today?"

There are a number of problems with your logic. First, the sample size is too small (and is not scientific). Second, it could be that you were lucky; just as people's muscles differ, so too could the strength of their UCL.


"You really think the doctors know anything about training an arm? Let me clue you in.....doctors repair arms......they do not train them."

I actually agree with you. I believe a big problem is that too often doctors go along with the conventional wisdom without really looking into whether it makes sense. Also, their orientation (and training) tends to be much more focused on fixing problems rather than preventing them. Prevention is a very different field (public health) than is medicine.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Chris:
...the people of my generation....the sample size is too small

Really. I thought the babyboomers were one of the largest generations ever.

I think I started playing little leauge in 1950 and we had limits then. We were limited to a set number of innings per week (6 I think)with a set number of days rest between games. The same basic rules apply today in Dixie Youth baseball.

I only knew one player to have arm surgery during my playing days and his name was Artie Samuel Schukenfeldt. I always felt they had the ability to do the surgery but were waiting on Tommy Johns to hurt his arm so they could give the surgery a proper name.