I would like to know what this board thinks the key to velocity. I assume people will tell me long toss, weighted balls, weight training, some paticular drill, etc. To me these things are a waste of time. I think pithing is a skill similar to Golf, you have to work on your skill by throwing off the mound with good mechanics and good timing. This is what they did in the old days. There was no long toss, weight training, or weighted balls. People are looking for the easy way out but don't want to put the work in.

In the good old days, a guy who threw 90+ was overpowering. Today the standard is 5-10 mph faster. And the standard keeps getting pushed further out there. So don't kid yourself; meeting the tests that applied to pitchers 30-40 years ago won't get you where you want to be today.

There are, in my mind, three keys to velocity: conditioning, mechanics, and genetics. Genetics you can't do anything about, and it's a fact that taller, lankier guys have a natural advantage, while others just seem to have lightning in their joints. But the other two are within your control. If you have genetic gifts, you have the advantage, and if you work hard at the other two elements you have the inside track at success. But someone who works hard will outperform someone with natural gifts who doesn't, time after time. So even if you're not gifted, you can succeed if you work hard and work at the right things.

You are right to stress mechanics, but don't ignore conditioning or advances in the thinking towards pitching-specific conditioning. You sound to me like someone who is giving himself an excuse for not doing things you simply don't enjoy. You will not succeed on mechanics alone, without conditioning, even if you do have the genetic gifts.

I am not ignoring conditioning. What I am saying is you have to do the right type of conditioning. If you call weight training conditioning it's not going to help the pitcher much. I like plyometrics and functional training for a pitcher rather then weight training. What kind of conditioning do you think helps a pitcher? Alot of times velocity increases come from simply growth and development. I have seen increases as big as 10 mph from season to season. So you're saying todays hitters can hit the 90+ alot better then 30 years ago? The pitchers then threw a heck of a lot harder then now.

Bustamove and Midlo,

Those are both excellent posts and I agree with both of you. There is no telling how many times I have said here at this site that plyometric training as well as agility training and functional types of baseball related training is what seperates great from average. Mechanics and conditioning along with preservation of shoulder capsule/rotator are all considerations.

Bustamove, you said this in another thread and even though I didn't respond there, I totally agree. It was about players sometimes not wanting to do what's required in appropriate training and conditioning Along those lines anyway. It's much more difficult to do the right kind of training involving plyometrics and functional training than your traditional lay down on a bench and do ruin your rotator(ball & socket) bench presses!!! Not to mention getting up and sitting upright and doing military press which is equally as bad for the shoulder capsule. These are just a few examples.
ATTN PLAYERS:KEY TO VELOCITY>PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING TO YOU>READ THE FOLLOWING
I recommend light weight/high reps for shoulder capsule which has ligaments that keep the tight non-crunching and smooth ball&socket movement in your shoulder capsule. I also recommend surgical rubber tubing but make sure you start with weakest and work up to strongest tubing in N/S/E/W rubber tubing pulls. This is the only way to go in training functionally for rotator. If you stretch those ligaments that hold together that rotator, you will never have the same virgin arm-speed again in your arm-action again. Bottom line, protect your rotators!

DR JOBE will tell you this as well as every other othropedic sports specialist on the face of this earth. Be careful with rotators!!!!

I learned this through my own personal experience. I developed scar tissue around my ball&socket and rotator which caused a crunching or grinding feeling every time I moved my shoulder and especially when I threw. I played throught the pain my senior year in college and in the minors which could get unbearable pushing those throws from CF and LF in the Carolina League against seasoned pro players running all out at least Major League average speed with very few exceptions below that running grade. I was fortunate to survive but only through pure will-power and blocking out the pain mentally over and over, day after day. It's called, playing hurt. You think I let a little pain stop me from achieving my lifelong dream to sign a professional contract? No way! I was that determined but it was a challenge to run with the pack day in and day out hurt without complaining.

I finally had surgery and got scoped and the scar tissue was shaved clean around ball&socket in my throwing shoulder. Within a year, the rotator along with the ball&socket worked freely again without the grinding, popping and crunching sounds and feelings I had prior to othroscopic procedure.

My case was minor with scar tissue compared to tears which are often times the direct result of too much weight or force on rotators. Most tear cases are a lot more severe in surgery and rehab thereof. Hope I didn't upset anybody but wouldn't you rather hear from experience and prevent the same thing from happening to you? I post this because, SHEP CARES AND WANTS THE BEST FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU WHO HAVE DREAMS AND ASPIRATIONS TO FURTHER CAREERS.peace

Bustamove, so you want to increase velocity but no weight training, weighted balls long toss or drill work. Maybe you should try golf or just sitting in front of the tv all day playing video games. Or the "good old days" like some of my hs coaches did, just go out and run. My point is why did you ask the question when you didn't want an answer?

The key to velocity increase is a BALANCED workout program. That should include running, flat ground work, dry work, mound work, longtossing, proper weight training with good form and correct technique, weighted balls, plyometrics, agility training, proper core work, all done pitching specific. It is an all around the year program with different emphasis on different areas at different times of the year.

As to weighted ball progams, they can be detrimental to training if the mechanics are not sound and if the program is not properly monitored. If done properly, it can give pretty quick and dramatic results. IT MUST BE DONE CORRECTLY.

Shepster, you are right about bench press training and military press trainingbeing detrimental to the shoulder joint. You are not entirely correct. The bench press and military press can contribute if done with proper technique and not pass a 90 degree angle. With the bench press, most people do it incorrectly by not keeping the elbows by the side and letting them flair out. Also by pushing up towards the head and not straight up. They also arch their back and not keep it flat. You should, asa pitcher, never let the bar touch you chest or go past 90 degrees. Imagine doing the bench press on flat ground, that would be not past 90 degrees. I always tell pitchers to lay on the floor and use dumbells. This will protect their shoulders. The military press is the same. DON'T GO PAST 90 DEGREES.

The bottom line is that a good program is all inclusive. It covers the spectrum. JMO

quote:

Originally posted by Bustamove:
I would like to know what this board thinks the key to velocity.

Genetics

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Bustamove:
I would like to know what this board thinks the key to velocity.

Response by Beezer:


Genetics

Great genetics and no mechanics and no conditioning amount to nothing. Can't do it without genetics, but can't do it on just genetics either. Many pitchers don't have great genetics and become fine mlb pitchers. Just look at David Wells. lol I will admit that great velocity takes genetics, but not genetics alone. Colt Griffin has great genetics, but connot throw a strike. You think someone with great genetics would have the aptitude to learn the mechanics to control it. That is not always the case.

Bustamove, regret to inform you that pitchers now throw substantially harder than they did decades ago. Even just 30 years ago, Nolan Ryan was considered a freak of nature when he threw 100. (Actually he was a student of mechanics and conditioning, ahead of his time.) Today there are several MLB guys who can hit 100. There were several guys who threw in the 90's 40 and 50 years ago, but not several per team.

Sometimes I wonder if this is all the result of a big mistake. A lot of emphasis in scouting seems to be placed on the RADAR gun. The idea seems to be that no matter whom you draft, you have to teach the art of pitching, so you may as well start with those who are physically gifted. Seems to me we're going to miss the next Greg Maddux with this approach. And the prevalence of arm injuries in the current era is no doubt a result of the emphasis on throwing all out all the time.

But I digress! Whether it's good or bad, smart or stupid, it's a fact. Today's pitchers throw harder than yesteryear's, whether in MLB, college, or high school.

I'm all for plyometrics, tubes and the like. But there is a place for gym weight machines as well. Talk to a professional trainer to get a program designed for you and your personal goals.

In my memory, I think the first guy to really do this was Tom Seaver. Up until him, baseball players were told to avoid weights because you could "get too tight". Seaver hit the weights as a way to prolong his career, and he did more than just add years, he stayed a winner for another 6-8 years. He proved there was a right way to do it. And at this point, we've got 25-30 years of experience to prove that there is a right way to go about weight training for baseball players generally, and for pitchers in particular.

Bustamove, the pitchers then didn't throw a heck of a lot harder then now. Actually, they didn't throw any harder. The hardest throwers then were in the upper 90's-100 just like they are now, but there are more of these pitchers now.

I think a radar gun can actually help velocity. It gives a pitcher feedback. My son used to try to throw hard and would tense up. The ball came out relatively slow. The gun did not lie, it told him how he could get the ball to come out faster. My younger son (8) will throw to a gun from the start. (Yes, I expect to get hammered for this on this website.)

Here are some tips on increasing velocity.

1. Have the intent to throw fast or quick, not hard. It is about arm speed.
2. Throw fast or quick.
3. Throw fast or quick well.

This is a change in the past on training. It parallels golf and tennis. It makes you use all the pieces that chain. It makes no sense to try to learn to throw strikes first, then change your mechanics and motion to throw faster. It is akin to trying to learn to hit a golf ball in the fairway first and long second.

There was good advice on this thread. Be careful HOW you work out to increase strength, agility and fast twitch.

I believe (1) mechanics, (2) athletic ability and work can improve velocity.

Well, not to nitpick Busta, but how do you know they didn't do long toss and weighted ball and weight training in the old days? In the old days they called it

. . . . playing catch, and they did a ton of it (even kids will keep stretching it out to see how far they can throw),

. . . . wet baseballs are heavy (they didn't have dozens upon dozens per game, especially at the HS/college/minor levels; and as a kid we had some really heavy baseballs after a night lost in the grass)

. . . and as for weight training, it may not have been very specific, but guys had to Work in the old days in the off-season, many in manual labor type jobs. Probably a bit of weight training there for some guys.

Just because they didn't have fancy names for this stuff doesn't mean they didn't do it.

lineshot, I was just interested in what people would say. I don't need no answers just think it is funny some of the ideas that come up.

I know somebody who used to pitch 40 or 50 years ago in the majors, sorry can't give out his name. He told me there was no long toss, no emphasis on weight training to gain velocity,or other things today that are being used. All he did was work on his mechanics while throwing off the mound with good timing and throwing a BASEBALL alot. Guys I'm not trying to say I know everything. I just get sick of some of the advice kids are getting today and it's not helping them improve and there are more injuries then ever.

Not nearly as funny as some of the questions.

Sounds like somebody is listening to DM.

FrankF, you are a troublemaker.

Not "lil" ole me?!?!

quote:

Originally posted by dad10:
Well, not to nitpick Busta, but how do you know they didn't do long toss and weighted ball and weight training in the old days? In the old days they called it

. . . . playing catch, and they did a ton of it (even kids will keep stretching it out to see how far they can throw),

. . . . wet baseballs are heavy (they didn't have dozens upon dozens per game, especially at the HS/college/minor levels; and as a kid we had some really heavy baseballs after a night lost in the grass)

. . . and as for weight training, it may not have been very specific, but guys had to Work in the old days in the off-season, many in manual labor type jobs. Probably a bit of weight training there for some guys.

Just because they didn't have fancy names for this stuff doesn't mean they didn't do it.

Great post. When I was a kid good baseballs cost a fortune, it seemed. A ball left in the rain can weigh 7 ounces. We still used them.

I didn’t know about all the gimmicks and high tech information and costly internet sites so I went with the conventional method with my son of workouts, light weights, and long toss --- lots of long toss. I might add that my son didn’t have great genetics. I think I topped out about 75mph ---- although his mother was pretty good about pitching a fit, I doubt that had little or no bearing on his ability to “hum” a baseball. Since I worked with my son and was able to get my son’s velocity up to 95 mph I thought about marketing my technique and establishing a “Fungo Fastball Following” but I opted to allow my son to get all the recognition for his throwing ability and to give credit where credit was due. I would feel comfortable with the pitching advice of BigHit and FrankF since they both have at least one student do extremely well.
Bustamove said:

quote:

I was just interested in what people would say. I don't need no answers just think it is funny some of the ideas that come up.

I couldn't have said that better myself......

Fungo