Below are a few pics of my 9 yr old son pitching. I would like to get a few thoughts on his arm angle. First photo is just before he opens up. Do you think his arm angle is too low? His control is good, and he hasn't complained of any arm pain what so ever. Just looking for thoughts/opinions.

Thanks.

very good, its probably his natural slot so IMO I wouldnt mess with it. Just keep encouraging him!

quote:

Originally posted by Pat H:
Below are a few pics of my 9 yr old son pitching. I would like to get a few thoughts on his arm angle. First photo is just before he opens up. Do you think his arm angle is too low? His control is good, and he hasn't complained of any arm pain what so ever. Just looking for thoughts/opinions.

He looks good.




I like how low his Pitching Arm Side elbow is in the picture above. Don't let anyone tell you it's bad.

This is what Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson's elbows look like at the same moment in time.




The picture above shows a good 3/4 arm slot. I also like that his glove ends up in his chest.

Nice work.

I agree with deemax - I wouldn't mess with the arm slot. In fact, I wouldn't get too concerned with a 9yo.

But I do see the back foot off the ground before the ball is released. That tells me that his head and shoulders probably got out front too soon and that he's throwing with too much arm. I'd want to see some video to confirm this and to identify the cause.

Looks like quite the scapular load!

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Tomas:
But I do see the back foot off the ground before the ball is released. That tells me that his head and shoulders probably got out front too soon and that he's throwing with too much arm. I'd want to see some video to confirm this and to identify the cause.

I disagree.

I think this is a sign of very good hip rotation, and it's one thing I look for when scouting pitchers.

You see this in some pros. For example, here's Nate Robertson doing exactly the same thing.



bbscout's clips of Maddux show the exact same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by itrogas44:
Looks like quite the scapular load!

Yes, but it's safe scap load because the elbows are below the level of the shoulders ala Randy Johnson.

Can someone explain "scapular load" please?

Thanks.

Painguy,

What is it about the invisible elbow you like ?

Pat H... if he is throwing strikes painfree and having fun don't mess too much with a 9YO plenty of time to screw him up in the future A video is necessary to determine arm slot / action but from the photo near release it looks like he does most of the major things right. Scap loading is the tensioning of the muscles in the back by pushing the elbows behind the back. Pretty much happens on its own in a sound throwing motion.

Yankee,
Thanks for the explanation. He's definitely having fun. He turned 10 today actually, but hopefully we stay away from screwing him up...physically. He does a good enough job on his own mentally.
He has worked hard to get where he is now. From what i'm reading it seems as if he's at least started on the right path.

Their arms are in similar positions yet their is a huge difference between the position attained by Johnson and the position attained by the kid.

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
Painguy, What is it about the invisible elbow you like ?

In my opinion, it's the safe way to scap load. The higher a pitcher's elbows get, the more I start to worry about the health of their PAS shoulder.

Here are some examples of great pitchers with low elbows...

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Their arms are in similar positions yet their is a huge difference between the position attained by Johnson and the position attained by the kid.

Please explain.

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Tomas:
But I do see the back foot off the ground before the ball is released. That tells me that his head and shoulders probably got out front too soon and that he's throwing with too much arm. I'd want to see some video to confirm this and to identify the cause.

I disagree.

I think this is a sign of very good hip rotation, and it's one thing I look for when scouting pitchers.

You see this in some pros. For example, here's Nate Robertson doing exactly the same thing.

bbscout's clips of Maddux show the exact same thing.

Having the back foot lift off the ground instead of dragging is not a prerequisite for good hip rotation - total body position and momentum are. Dragging the back foot is simply an indication that the head and shoulders were stacked upright into release. If the head and shoulders get out front to soon or too far, hip rotation will be inhibited.

But I'm confused. You said "You see this in some pros" yet you limit yourself by looking for it in the pitchers you scout? Seems to me you'll write off too many good candidates unnecessarily. There are lots of top pitchers who drag the back foot including Ryan, Clemens, Brown, Smoltz, Wagner, Lincicum, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
Painguy, What is it about the invisible elbow you like ?

In my opinion, it's the safe way to scap load. The higher a pitcher's elbows get, the more I start to worry about the health of their PAS shoulder.

Here are some examples of great pitchers with low elbows...

A still picture can show the elbow in many different positions. The elbow of all of these pitchers is much higher when releasing the ball, and I have the clips to prove it.

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Tomas:
But I'm confused. You said "You see this in some pros" yet you limit yourself by looking for it in the pitchers you scout? Seems to me you'll write off too many good candidates unnecessarily. There are lots of top pitchers who drag the back foot including Ryan, Clemens, Brown, Smoltz, Wagner, Lincicum, etc.

Let me explain.

What I prefer is that pitchers not leave their PAS foot behind on the rubber. That can cause a variety of problems, including problems decelerating the arm and problems with the Teres Minor (ala Andy Pettitte).



I don't care if the foot is on the ground or up in the air, as long as the PAS foot is well off the rubber and the PAS knee is bent roughly 90 degrees.

quote:

Originally posted by bbscout:
A still picture can show the elbow in many different positions. The elbow of all of these pitchers is much higher when releasing the ball, and I have the clips to prove it.

I agree.

What I'm pointing out is that the elbow is low at this point; as the PAS forearm is vertical and passing through the high cocked position as the shoulders rotate.