"Flat ground throwing" thread had a couple of casual mentions that throwing low in the zone adds speed to a pitch. In gunning lots of pitchers it has occurred to me too that unusually fast pitches (say a record for the pitcher) were often thrown low, sometimes into the ground).

I'm guessing the later release point on a low pitch allows more acceleration.

Anyone else notice this? It would be fairly easy for PG or some other group to collect data on where pitchers' fastest throws ended up.

I've never seen any research on the subject, but I'm guessing that a prospect might be able to add one mph to his readings just by throwing very low.

That makes sense to me, but it always seemed to me that you got the highest reading by throwing in the most direct path to the gun. If the gun was low the highest reading was on a low pitch, and if the gun was high (as in up in the bleachers) the highest reading seemed to come on the high pitches.
That is a good question, and your theory sounds logical.

MICDS guy,
You have a PM

Remember that the guns are reading "out of hand" (e.g., very soon after release). The difference in release for a low and high pitch is slight (less than about two degrees in terms of the aiming angle at the plate). Would doubt that it is detectable via radar. Theoretically present, but more than likely in the noise level when speaking practically.

Stalkers read very precisely and then round to the nearest 1 mph. Stalkers, btw, have a 1/10 mph readout setting but, for some reason, it isn't recommended for baseball. It is for measuring things like cars (as I recall).

So adding a mere 1/10th mph would result in 89.4 increasing to 89.5 and displaying a rounded 90 on the read-out. Noise level, yes. Kinda like a dog whistle noise that scouts can hear

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Just a thought. This might be another reason than flat ground throwing reads slower than from a mound in showcases. The thrower is far more likely to instinctively throw to the chest rather than to the knees or below.

quote:

Originally posted by micdsguy:
Noise level, yes. Kinda like a dog whistle noise that scouts can hear

In our state the Stalkers are used by the State Troopers---my Stalker is regularly calibrated by the gentleman who does the troopers guns--in fact I meet him in the parking lot of the state building to drop off and pick up the gun

TRHit, new Stalker Sports are sealed and have no user accessible calibration. They come with a tuning fork and also a "test" button (which should show "80" when pushed). Stalker says to return the gun to the factory for adjustment if the user thinks the gun has a problem.

Regular calibration isn't normally required. Highway Patrol guns are regularly calibrated because their readings are frequently challenged in court. They receive heavy use and are often used in adverse weather.

As we all know, even new quality guns show nutty readings. With identical guns, one may read 3 mph high on one pitch and 3 mph low on the next with the gun in the same location. (complex subject has been discussed many times on HSBBW but always interests me)

I doubt the problem is often with calibration. That's also why it's hard to know how much difference pitch location makes on the radar readout.

Pitchers should be gunned over many pitches to get a proper indication of their speed. I THINK low pitches may be faster than high ones, but it would take some large scale research (say, by PG) to know for sure.

Depends on where the gun is in relation to the direction of the pitch. If the scout if up in the stands a high pitch should read faster. If the scout is sitting at ground level a low pitch should read faster.

Who cares about 1 mph?

mic


that is why my gun is checked by the Stalker people

quote:

Who cares about 1 mph?

Yeah, a small difference like that between Sir Roger Bannister's 3:59.4 and a forgotten Swede's 4:01.

LOL

Value of even 1 mph to a major league pitcher is probably worth millions over a career, especially these day.

Let me rephrase that. Who cares about a 1 mph difference on a specific gun on a given pitch?

The reality is that if you are in the right ballpark speed wise you are going to be gunned many times. Some days you will be throwing harder than others. The judgements will be made on a composite of all your throws and the 1 mph on that one pitch will get lost in the noise.

1 mph means almost nothing to a ML pitcher. Too many other variables.

quote:

Originally posted by micdsguy:

throwing low in the zone adds speed to a pitch. In gunning lots of pitchers it has occurred to me too that unusually fast pitches were often thrown low, sometimes into the ground.

ABSOLUTELY 100% TRUE!!!

Though I'm not sure if it is the radar gun picking it up or the fact that when pitcher's overthrow, they usually miss low and away.

funny, when I overthrow, I miss high. I believe it is because my arm is ahead of my body so im not throwing as downhill, but that's irrelivant. So my high throws are generally harder than my low. On the contrary, sometimes I feel like my very low throws (hitting plate or in dirt) are gunned significantly lower as if the gun had an error (to drastically lower on occasion to make any sense at all).

Just my observations, I'm sure it varies on the pitcher.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew:
funny, when I overthrow, I miss high. I believe it is because my arm is ahead of my body so im not throwing as downhill, but that's irrelivant.

If you are trying to throw harder by rushing you'll miss high. Your arm trying to catch up.

But I believe if you are overthrowing staying true to your mechanics, low and away. Its someone really trying to finish off their pitches.

micdsguy, I'm not so sure that Stalkers round to the nearest MPH. My experience is different. I used to own both a JUGS and a Stalker (I had the JUGS, then bought a Stalker Sport in 2003. I owned both guns concurrently for a few months until I was able to sell the JUGS). From what I have seen, neither the Stalker Sport nor the JUGS rounds to the closest whole number. Instead, the Stalker always shows the next lower number, while the JUGS always shows the next higher number. Thus, if both radar guns register 87.9, the Stalker will show 87, while the JUGS will display 88. If both guns register 87.2, the Stalker Sport will still indicate 87, and the JUGS will still read 88. Of course, the Stalker Pro will actually display "87.9" or "87.2" for the release speed of the pitch (not to mention showing both the "release" speed and the "plate" speed at the same time).